finally posting!

Hi everyone. I stumbled upon this forum 3 months ago as I set out to build my first pond and I cannot thank you all enough for the help and inspiration you all unknowingly provided. I have checked this forum daily and benefitted tremendously.
A few basics about myself and my pond: I live in Valley Forge, PA, zone 6. My pond is 4800 gallons, waterfall, big bahama bio-filter 1900 5000 gph, watermaster clear pump 3960 gph, Aqua 40 watt UVC light.
The pond is fully functional since mid July, and I have had only a few minor issues.
I will definately be posting pictures of the pond, but in all candor, am slightly embarrased that i have not completed all of the rock exterior so it is not as asthetically pleasing as I would like at the moment. But...well, thats the fun part for me, because I have personally dug out, moved and placed every rock and plant! I think perhaps that I didn't want to finish as I know how much fun it will be again to work on it every day as the weather warms up next spring. (atleast thats the excuse I'm going with)
Anyway, I currently have a bunch of comets, shubunkins, one fancy tail goldfish, one oranda, and one Koi. I lost a few comets in the first 2 weeks and have not lost a fish since.
I am very nervous going into my pond's first winter but have done the best I can. My question is whether or not my shubunkins ( my daughter's favorites) can survive the winter in the pond. I have heard they are more susceptible to temperature extremes. I do have a de-icer prepared.
Thanks so much everyone! I apologize beforehand if it takes a bit to return posts as I do work during the day. ( history teacher.)

BigRed, a big welcome to ya! Glad to see a lurker come out and join in for real!!

Your shubunkins should do fine--though they are not as winter hardy as comets or some of the other golfish--but generally they tend to do okay in a pond through cold more often than not.

I'd be more concerned about that oranda and I'm not sure what the fancy tailed one you mention is. Can you identify the breed or perhaps post of pic of it so we can help you? Orandas are not breeds that do well in waters that can freeze over at all. They are goldfish for warmer waters in general. Can you set up a fish tank in your house and keep him and maybe the other fancy-tailed one together indoors for the winter? A de-icer won't really help in this situation, you'd really need a heater if you plan on kpeeing him in there. Be warned that some of these devices can be energy hogs and use high amounts of wattage.

You basically need to act quickly with a decision because your waters should be pretty darned close to 50 degrees....

nice to have you with us B.R.

Thanks. And thanks for the info koikeepr. As usual, you've given me advise I will take seriously. I will dust off my 55 gallon tank inside and tomorrow will buy the necessary components to get it up and running in order to move a couple fish indoors for the winter.
I thought that I posted 3 pictures with my first thread, but apparently the pic did not go through.
I am going to try again.
O.K. Spent the last hour trying to figure out how to get pictures onto this thread. Think I figured it out but I had to reduce the quality a great deal. I am hoping you can see some of the fish discussed earlier. I will work on figuring out how to do this as i definately would like to post pictures.

I see what you've got there. You've got subunkins, sarassas (the white and red ones), comets (just orange).

What's up with the orange one and the big belly on the bottom right in photo #2? Is that the fancy tailed one you referred to? The scales on the belly appear golf-ball like, but I can't exactly tell for sure as the photo isn't very clear from where I'm looking at it.

And the one in the first photo with what looks like a stunted/cropped tail? Hard to tell from your photos because of the angle of the image.

Also, where do you live? Can you add that to your CP, please. It's helpful when making recommendations often times.

Good thing you got that tank. Fill your tank with pond water, so at least you have the water already acclimitized. If there's any filter media you can borrow from your pond (some bio balls, whatever), to stick into your tank filter, you'd be better off too. If you're worried about little bits of suspended debris, just pour your water through a strainer first to catch any floating stuff. As you do water changes, you're water will clear up, so don't worry about that. If it's indoors, and your home is a normal indoor temp, you won't need a heater or anything. Put at least one or two other fish with your oranda so he's got a buddy or two. Maybe you want to pick the shubunkins, for example.

Welcome to the forum Big Red

I thought the red fish with the huge belly was an oranda! No one seems to know what it is. All I know is that he's an awesome fish, always comes right up to me and my daughters when we feed 'em.
The Fantail ( or fancy-tail) is the smaller of the two white fish with a red streak on top of their heads. It is in both images.
The sarassas with what looks like a stunted tail, actualy doesn't have one. These pictures were pretty aweful. I will figure out a better way to post higher quality images.
Actually, those were shot 3 nights ago at about 9 PM. I had stirred up the pond pretty good earlier in the day cleaning the bottom, and with the lights on their was a cool 'haze' to the water. So I snapped some photos.

The orange fish is a koi! Pet store quality.

I did not want to start with expensive fish. All of the comets and sarassas were bought as 'feeders' from a store near me. Everyone seems to be doing great. The large bellied one we got from the same store, but advertised as an oranda. I would love to keep him out for the winter but if everyone tells me to bring him in, well...he's coming in.
Thanks again.

No. An oranda has a big hood on it's head. Here is a pic of one.

The one in quesiton looks like an ordinary comet, but it seems to have a distended belly. Has it always looked like that? How long have you had it? Is he a very hearty eater?? He might be overweight if that's the case perhaps. But it definitely looks plumper than it should be. Hard to tell with that photo tho.

The red streaked ones are called sarassas, technically they aren't fancy. LOL! But I guess both you and I think they are! LOL! I have a bunch of 'em and they really are pretty because they look koi-like--almost like a tancho koi at times (sarassas are often called "the poor mans koi" because they look like 'em, but are cheap). But they are common and essentially slight abberations of a standard comet (when a white and red/orangey comet breed). The can get fairly large quickly, as they are hoggy eaters. Especially with a 4800 gal pond--you will see them get pretty big.

It is not correct to call it a fantail, by the way. A fantail has a double-split tail. Here's an example of one. Unless I'm missing something, you have all single tails. But, they are called sarassas.

I sure hope you didn't pay Oranda prices for your "oranda." Because I really don't see how it can be one. It has a single tail, no hood, nor the body shape. They also tend to have very flowy fins. And they swim pretty slowly.

Starting with inexpensive fish is very smart. Most of us did the same, and the fish you have selected are of a sturdy variety, so they should last for years if you maintain proper water quality. If you and your daughter love them, it doesn't matter how much they cost.

Based on what I'm seeing from your photo, you don't appear to have any fish that would not be able to survive the winter in the pond. Of course, there's no guarantee any fish will survive a winter...sometimes, it's just the luck of the draw and if you have a really rough winter or not. And keep in mind that if you don't want the pain of having to drag fish into the house to overwinter, stick to the varieties you already have and avoid orandas and those more delicate fish that can't stand the cold in a pond. Typically (not absolute) those with fancy (double), flowing tails are of that ilk. Watonai, however, would be an exception to that rule. They have double flowing tails, but are exceptionally sturdy. You won't see these in a petstore, however. Very few of us in the US have watonai...they are fish that are just starting to make a comeback in the US. (You might see a sister fish named a Wakin in a petshop, it has the split tail, but not flowing like this. It is more stumpy/squat.) I'm hoping to breed my watonai this coming spring and hopefully have some for sale. Here's a pic of one of mine:



Welcome to the hobby!

Thanks koikeepr.
Thats great news about the "supposed oranda." I'm glad to learn he is a comet. But...yes, he eats nonstop. He is always the first to come up for food. Literally the first, everytime. I have had him for 4 months, since mid-July, and he has always looked like that. ( I refer to it as a him, when in fact I have no idea if it is a he. Yes, I have wondered if its a she, and if shes got a few in the oven)
I really hope when you wrote, " Based on what I'm seeing from your photo, you don't appear to have any fish that should be able to survive the winter in the pond." that it's a typo. Based on what I have been told and the content of your posts, my guys should be able to make it through alright. I'm assuming, and praying, that was a typo.
I have attached one more image of the fish i truly believe is a fantail. Take a look and tell me if I'm crazy.
I appreciate it.
BTW.. Your watonai are awesome! I saw you all discussing them in other posts and googled them as I was very interested in the fact that they are spectacular looking... and cold hardy. I would be delighted to purchase one or more from you. Best of luck breeding 'em.

LOL! Yes, mistake! I've fixed my post! I meant to say that all your fish are of the type that WILL survive a winter in a pond. LOL!

I can see your fantail now. Much better shot! Yes! It still appears to be a sarassa, but he ended up with a double tail. A pleasant surprise donated by nature. I guess he technically does deserve the title of "fancy" then! LOL!

I can only assume your "oranda" is overweight. If it was eggs (which should not be the case this time of year), it might be egg bound. Others here have way more experience with that than I do, but I would assume if it was egg bound that the fish would be dead after this many months.

Try to feed that one a little less than the others if you can. Just like humans, being overweight will affect their lifespan. Oftentimes, with hogs like these, it's hard to keep them away from food.

Also, are you still feeding? What's your water temp? Can't imagine your water temp hasn't hit 50 degrees yet in your neck of the woods. You need to quit feeding if that's the case. We'll see if your oranda loses some weight during the fast of winter...