Another sick fish

[MariaTeresa]

I already started a thread on my one goldfish that has white spots on its tail/fins. I've noticed two of the other fish also have issues. The one is missing some scales along its side. The other, the one I'm starting this thread about, has lumps.

I first noticed a lump on its side behind its gills. Today I got a closer look and there seems to be more lumps around the same area. The first lump has a white spot, almost like a pimple. The rest of the lumps are the same color as the fish. The fish is acting fine (as is the one with the missing scales), eating algae like crazy. Pond temp got up to 52F today but has been more around 44/46F recently.

I don't know the water parameters as I still haven't got a testing kit in. I have been doing water changes hoping that would help the goldfish with the white spots (which are now reduced in size and look more like fin rot...but that fish acts sick). Also, I can't quarantine as I don't have any set up for that at the moment. I do have a baby quarantined but I don't have anything big enough for the goldfish.

There are no new fish, and these four all came from my dad's pond where he hasn't had any illnesses or issues. I do have a lot of birds bathing and excreting in the pond. Maybe something got in that way? But they all seem to have different issues!

[Edit] I forgot: the pond is about 1000g with 4 adult goldfish and 1 little baby goldfish. There is no filter running at the moment, due to a broken pump. There is an aerator going 24/7, though.

Any ideas on the lumpy fish?

 

[Dave 54]

Firstly did you clear your pond of dead leaves and detritus last fall and also do filter maintenance again prior to fall .
What temperature is your pond at this moment in time and we'll need your water perameters Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, Ph what if anything are you feeding them and how much.
Just because your Dads pond seems ok doesnt mean his fish are safe and by not QTing them you may well have caused your fishes problems (you need a large QT pond Like you we have a 1,000 imperial Gallons pond in which we keep our koi but we also have a dedicated 550 imperial gallon QT fasility for any sick koi to go into .
The lumpy fish may be anything could you take a good photograph showing these lumps and missing scales etc, personally I hope its just fish pox wich will heal itself but spring is a funny time for all us fish keepers whe we have to be most aware of parasites attacking our fish at their weakest as to where do they come from all ponds have parasites its only when a fish falls ill that they exployt the chink it has caused in their armour and attach themselves through it , it is up to us to make sure it doesnt happen one of the best ways to do this is make sure you have a propperly maintained pond and filter .
In the articles section I've put out a list of our reference library of fish and fish health books , please feel free to take the relivant information off the page and buy a copy of the Interpet fish health Manual it will help give you a firm grounding in fish health issues .
You need to go out tomorrow and replace your ponds pump its now that you'll really start to need that filter asap

Dave

 

[Dave 54]

How are those photos coming along Maria hopefully when we get to look at them its nothing serious

Dave

 

[MariaTeresa]

Dave,

I did clear my pond of leaves, etc. in the fall. The pond was filled in August, the fish added a few weeks later. I did not have a pump & filter as I had hoped to be able to have a "natural" pond. I had read of people having successful ponds without filtration. I added a solar powered pump in November to keep a hole in the ice. It has a pre-filter, though looking back I should not have done that as it eventually reduced water flow.

The pond is 44F. I don't know the water parameters as I still don't have a testing kit. The pump should be coming today, however I have not yet had the electricity run down to the pond and I don't know when that will happen. I had hoped to run it in the meantime with an extension cord, but just realized that the garage door would have to stay open for that and that won't work.

All 4 fish were added at the same time...so how would QT have helped?

I am not feeding them and never have. They eat what the pond provides (which right now is a lot of algae). Both of these fish are eating. Only my 'white spot' fish is not.

I tried to get some pictures this morning. Unfortunately I tried catching the fish first, and then discovered that the lumps don't show up when it is out of the water. After that it wouldn't come near the surface, so I couldn't get a good picture in the water. The lumps seem to deflate out of the water, they don't feel like lumps at all and I could only recognize one. There is an area that had some red lines as well.

The first three pictures are Eli, the fish with the lumps. My finger is pointing to the two lumps in the pictures. The third picture I've circled the big lump. The fourth and fifth pictures are Rexi. The missing scales also show up better in the pond, but I think you can see them okay in the pictures.


Any thoughts? I'm very sorry I can't provide water parameters. Please try to help me figure this out even though I cannot give water parameters.

 

[MariaTeresa]

I should explain that I'm actually a nun in a monastery, and that is why I can't go out and get a pump and testing kit. We put in the pond thinking it would be a relatively easy project. We did not realize all the issues we would run into or how demanding a pond could be! Thus, I cannot make a QT tank, etc. I also cannot get the testing kit, though I'm hoping this might change. The electrical will be run when our workmen get the time rather than what is best for the fish. I realize these restrictions make helping me more difficult and I appreciate any help you can give.

 

[Dave 54]

May I apologies I didnt know you were in a monastry may I explain once you get into a routine of pond and filter maintenance you'l find things will settle down a little and you'll realize just what a pond can do for the soul.
For one you'll find it very easy to meditate as my wife Val and I frequently do, however to coin the phrase " you have to put a bit of work to get the tranquilty out benifit from its magic .
In the summer months weve spent many a happy day by the pond watching our koi swim lazyly by or eat a bit of fruit weve fed them
I suffer from PTSD it helps me focas then centre myself the same with Val but for different reasons, now 27 years into this hobby both of us with failing health but knowing what I did to get to enjoy the hobby, all the books I've read and now use as a cross referance library ,and Val's unstinting backing the whole journy then were the last 27 years worth it ?....My truethful answer would be Yes and I pray we can go on keeping them for another 20 years

Dave

 

[Mmathis]

I should explain that I'm actually a nun in a monastery, and that is why I can't go out and get a pump and testing kit. We put in the pond thinking it would be a relatively easy project. We did not realize all the issues we would run into or how demanding a pond could be! Thus, I cannot make a QT tank, etc. I also cannot get the testing kit, though I'm hoping this might change. The electrical will be run when our workmen get the time rather than what is best for the fish. I realize these restrictions make helping me more difficult and I appreciate any help you can give.

Not a direct answer to your problem, but......Are there any communities close by where you are? Well, the first thing that entered my mind when I saw the monastery reference was that maybe there is someone close by you (with some degree of knowledge and experience with ponds/fish) who wouldn't mind donating some time as maybe a care-taker, or who could "adopt" your pond and help out when it's something you can't handle. I know that sounds really "out there," but I am a Boy Scout leader. In our troop there are several individuals who are fish hobbiest, in one degree or another [myself included]. There is one young man, a scout, maybe around 15-ish who keeps home aquariums [including marine tanks]. He is an amazing young man to talk to -- his knowledge, understanding, and dedication to his fish blows me away. He knows more about "fish-keeping" than I would ever hope to [or care to] know -- which doesn't make him a pond expert, but does speak to the idea that there are probably resources out there who would be more than glad to lend a helping hand...... I would. A Scout Is Helpful! In our case, our troop is chartered through [IOW, sponsored by] my Catholic church, which mainly means the church provides our meeting fascilities, so we're always looking for ways to pay it forward!

 

[Tula]

Do you have a hose, long enough to reach your pond? If so, I'd add water, letting it over flow the pond.....a kind of "water change". You will need to know if your water supply has chorine of choramines in and if so, add some de decholrinator, which can be purchased as Pets Mart etc.

This will be a start, in improving your water quality

 

[MariaTeresa]

Dave and Mmathis, thank you so much for your responses, they are very encouraging! Every time I get overwhelmed by the pond issues, I just think about how lovely it will be with the water going and all the plants grown. It is actually traditional for monasteries to have fountains or some sort of "living" water as a symbol of the "living water" of God. It really does draw people and it is very peaceful....just not for me right now

We actually have an eagle scout working on a garden project out front. We have many people who want to volunteer and help, but so far no one with fish knowledge! My dad has a koi pond, but his pond seems to flourish without much help. He's never had sickness or tested his water or had to add any sort of chemical. He lost two large koi when a pump failed, but that's about it! I think my main pond issue has been getting some sort of electricity, dc or ac, out to the pond. Maybe it will be easier once that happens?

Tula, I do have a long hose. I do regularly overflow the pond with a hose. Actually, right now I'm doing it about every day in case the water is harmful. We, thankfully, don't have a problem with chlorine or chloramines, which makes it really easy. I've been doing this every day for about a week now (ever since the hose was hooked back up).

I have microbe-lift pl, but the pond isn't consistently 50F yet so I'm holding off on adding it. I did add the autumn & winter prep bacteria & enzymes in the autumn.

Any ideas as to the lumps and scales? Would it be better, maybe, to replace the goldies with minnows?

 

[Dave 54]

Having looked at the photo's all I can see is what looks to be fish pox which should feel waxy to the touch , they are cold water related and will disapear at around 15c or above , the fish itself isnt harmed by them and they dont spread to other fish .
It normally disapears completely after a few years , its also know as koi pox.
There are one or two missing scales which dont look infected and should after a while grow back.
Did you know Carp where actively raised in Monestaries and used as a food source .
Where the four fish new o the fish in the pond , if no then there wasnt a need to QT them if yes then 8 weeks QT before they go in after being tested for parasites by means of a scrape which is taken from the fish to put on a slide and then under a microscope to check the sslide for parasites .
It's never wworth egnoring QT , thats when fish die

Dave

 

[MariaTeresa]

Dave,
I'm pretty sure it isn't fish pox. The lumps are very difficult to see out of water and appear to be a bump under the skin. It feels just like the rest of the fish, not waxy. I know it looks sort of whitish in the picture, and it also does when the fish is in water, but when I caught it the lump actually looked just like the rest of the fish...but with a bump under the skin/scales. I really wish it were fish pox though!

Could the stress of winter/spring have caused the one fish to lose its scales?

There were no fish in the pond before these four. Five were added, the first isolated itself and was lethargic right away and was dead the next morning. These four survived. Anything else that will be added I will make sure to quarantine (somehow!).

Some of the sisters have definitely hinted at making a meal of the goldies!

 

[Dave 54]

Not a direct answer to your problem, but......Are there any communities close by where you are? Well, the first thing that entered my mind when I saw the monastery reference was that maybe there is someone close by you (with some degree of knowledge and experience with ponds/fish) who wouldn't mind donating some time as maybe a care-taker, or who could "adopt" your pond and help out when it's something you can't handle. I know that sounds really "out there," but I am a Boy Scout leader. In our troop there are several individuals who are fish hobbiest, in one degree or another [myself included]. There is one young man, a scout, maybe around 15-ish who keeps home aquariums [including marine tanks]. He is an amazing young man to talk to -- his knowledge, understanding, and dedication to his fish blows me away. He knows more about "fish-keeping" than I would ever hope to [or care to] know -- which doesn't make him a pond expert, but does speak to the idea that there are probably resources out there who would be more than glad to lend a helping hand...... I would. A Scout Is Helpful! In our case, our troop is chartered through [IOW, sponsored by] my Catholic church, which mainly means the church provides our meeting fascilities, so we're always looking for ways to pay it forward!

I agree totally with Maggie if your order isnt a closed order then perhaps you an get a volunteer to help out , If I lived in your area I would have jumped at the chance to help out .
My knowledge base is fish health and I'm continually learning however Like Maggie I too new a young man adged 14 who's knowledge of all things fish even puts my knowledge to shame because it also cover tropical and marine fish .
That young man is now in his 30's and he lectures on a part time basis to the Marine bilogy students studying at Plymouth University .
Your other bet would be to purchase books and treatments etc on line you'll be glad you did

Dave

 

[MariaTeresa]

We are actually a cloistered Order, but volunteers and hired help are allowed in to help with the upkeep of the grounds and building. You got me thinking, though. We do actually know a priest of our Order with extensive fancy goldfish knowledge (kept in tanks). I emailed him the pictures but he hasn't gotten back to me yet.He has given us a goldfish book (Fancy Goldfish) with tons of information on fish health and treatments....but I can't find lumps in there! The treatment is also based on tank fish, and I'm not sure how that would convert to pond. Because our pond is an irregular shape our volume calculation is just an estimate...which would make me very nervous with using dosing information based on a tank situation. To give the book full credit, it does mention ponds a few times. (It is also very over my head!)

Any ideas on the lumps? The 3 of the 4 fish are still acting fine. There is, unfortunately, a lot of runoff in the pond today (I thought I had solved this problem when I built it but apparently not!) from the rain, so I can't see as clearly. I'm hoping if the lumps were something serious that the fish would have other symptoms.

 

[Dave 54]

We are actually a cloistered Order, but volunteers and hired help are allowed in to help with the upkeep of the grounds and building. You got me thinking, though. We do actually know a priest of our Order with extensive fancy goldfish knowledge (kept in tanks). I emailed him the pictures but he hasn't gotten back to me yet.He has given us a goldfish book (Fancy Goldfish) with tons of information on fish health and treatments....but I can't find lumps in there! The treatment is also based on tank fish, and I'm not sure how that would convert to pond. Because our pond is an irregular shape our volume calculation is just an estimate...which would make me very nervous with using dosing information based on a tank situation. To give the book full credit, it does mention ponds a few times. (It is also very over my head!)

Any ideas on the lumps? The 3 of the 4 fish are still acting fine. There is, unfortunately, a lot of runoff in the pond today (I thought I had solved this problem when I built it but apparently not!) from the rain, so I can't see as clearly. I'm hoping if the lumps were something serious that the fish would have other symptoms.

I still say those lumps are koi pox if they disapear after 15c we'll know , is the book Fancy Goldfish written by Erik L Johnson DVM if so thats a very good book to have and is a copy that I have so that I can help people with their goldfish problems .
I think for goldfish book Titles @bettasngoldfish would be the person to talk to about titles book wise as I know shes putting together her own library .
It's good that you have a priest that knows about goldfish bring him in to see if he will concur with my findings .

Dave

 

[MariaTeresa]

Dave, yes, it is the book by Johnson! It is very thorough (except with lumps).
I'm hoping you are right and it is just fish pox. We'll see what the priest says.
Thank you so much for your help!