barrier in bog

[toytika]

While I am building my bog I'm trying to figure out how to maintenance it without having to take everything apart etc. So I was looking at the bottom drain method and after having a couple seasons of a leaking pond and not finding any solution to fixing it besides replacing the whole liner, I'm extremely hesitant to putting a hole in the bottom of the liner, since I'm not comfortable with it my brain started working on another solution, and what I have come up with is: I took three pieces of PVC fitted them together to form a U it was going to be a box but my bog's curves wouldn't allow for that, I capped the end's and if needed can add something to weight it down, I put stone underlayment around it and sewed the two sides closed leaving the side closest to the outside of the bog wall open for cleaning purposes, I now have a giant media bag if needed and a way to separate the bottom larger stone from the pea gravel, I know once the pea gravel is added on top my contraption it will be extremely hard to move it or lift it up but not impossible especially with things like jacks and hoist's lol, I basically wanted to be able to get to where the larger debris might collect without having to remove all the stone, I will update after its been running awhile, and I thought because of the texture of the fabric its one giant media pad too!

 

[Mmathis]

I think I know what you are concerned with, but not sure what you are trying to do. So if I'm totally off, please let me know, and maybe someone else can help, as well. @addy1 is our resident "bog expert." Everyone does things a little different, so there's really no right or wrong way -- just whatever works best for them.

For the most part, bogs don't require maintenance [except thinning out plants]. I have a PVC manifold for my bog [FYI, it doesn't have to be weighted down]. At each end I have a vertical pipe that is capped off. They are clean-out pipes. When the time comes, I'll attach a ShopVac hose to them and suck out any debris that's accumulated under the gravel [that's how it's supposed to work]. I wouldn't think there would be any large debris, depending on what your pump can handle -- it's pretty much going to be broken down and decomposed.

And as far as I know, the only thing you need to put in the bog is a solid fill of pea gravel -- no larger rocks.

I caught "putting a hole in the liner." Why would you have to do this? Are you thinking that you'd have to install a drain in the bog? Nope.

Here is a pic of my small [box turtle] bog. It is separate from the pond and the water feeds to & from the pond via PVC. The water going in is pumped via the tubing you see here (1-1/2"). The gravity return isn't visible [partially underground] in the pic, but it is 4" drainage PVC. You can see the 2 vertical "clean-out" pipes -- they are brown. I think your bog is going to be connected to the pond, is that what I understand? Even so, the principles are the same.

This is a diagram of the PVC manifold system.

Hope this helps you.

 

[addy1]

Nice post TM

I have not touched my bog, cleaning wise, except yanking plants that grow like weeds. I don't think the pipes will ever plug up, I do not draw water from the bottom of the pond, the water is drawn from around a foot up. I do have a leaf basket in between the piping and the pump, which seldom needs to be cleaned. I do have a leaf basket in the skimmer, which does need to be cleaned when the trees are dropping their debris.

The pond piping is covered with a 5 gallon bucket with a ton of holes drilled in it. All the holes a little smaller than 1/2 inch. With all those holes no fish, snails, tads are drawn in, some plant matter is, but minimal.

My bog is nothing but pea gravel.

 

[toytika]

Yes it is connected I do have the same clean out pipe but wanted to have another way to be able to get to anything that might end up under the gravel, or if the pipe busted, etc. since my pond is, so in as best I can explain the pea gravel will go on top of this contraption I have created and under it is just slightly larger stone, the cleanout and piping from the pump, the idea is to just make that area accessible if needed without having to pull out all the plants and paperwork, I honestly don't think you should take apart a pond every season and dispose of all the good stuff by cleaning it out, but what do I know! Hopefully I wont ever have to use it but just in case I want to be able to really get to enjoy the pond versus what I have been doing(self created) the past couple years.

 

[toytika]

Oops and to correct myself I used the heavy duty landscape fabric I,e stone underlayment to create my barrier, which also become one big filter itself!

 

[Lisak1]

I don't want to be a wet blanket here, but I do fear you are actually making the situation worse, not better. I'm afraid that material will quickly clog with fine debris (which would otherwise not be an issue in your bog) and stop the free flow of water thorough the gravel. Plus you are stopping your plant roots in your bog in their tracks. And just how you would pull that out without disturbing everything you have growing in your bog is kind of confusing to me.

Maybe I'm not understanding what you're trying to do...

 

[Mmathis]

@Lisak1 Similar thoughts, here, but too, I may not be understanding everything.

@toytika I think you are over-thinking your bog's construction. Face it, if anything "goes wrong" inside your bog, you're gonna have to take it all apart anyway, including removing the gravel AND all the plants. It happens, but it's rare. As far as the gravel goes, I guess you could put down a layer of larger rocks on the bottom, but not sure why you'd want to.....[when you add the gravel, you know it's just going to fill in any gaps between the larger rocks, so.....] What most of us do is either put a layer of left-ever liner or a layer of thick underlayment down on top of the liner. This "protects" the liner from any potential damage caused from the force of the water and/or extra weight of the gravel. Then put the PVC manifold down, making sure it's level and all pieces fit well. Some people solvent weld theirs, but I didn't in case I had to made adjustments. Fit the pieces together well, and the weight of the gravel and water will hold them in place.

Just so we are all understanding your intent, could you maybe draw a little diagram. I'm a visual person, so I understand things better when I can actually see it. We really do want to help you!

 

[Lisak1]

That landscape fabric gives me nightmares. Many years ago we were caring for my in laws yard as they had run through every local landscape firm - my mil was not an easy customer. Anyway she had had one guy put landscape fabric down under all her shrubs, bushes, hedges, gardens - everywhere. And then put white stone over it as "mulch" - no common wood mulch for her! So as we slowly watched all the bushes die one summer, we started investigating and realized that the fabric had clogged with find debris - rock dust mainly - and any rain or water we were adding was just rolling off the inpenetrateable shield that it formed. Then the rocks were getting nice and hot and finishing the job by baking the roots to a crisp. It was quite the bad idea. We spent much of the summer pulling up fabric and shoveling out all that white stone. Not fun! But I learned my lesson about the downside of landscape fabric. It will eventually clog. But on the plus side - it will choke out weeds!

Sorry to hijack here @toytika - if none of this applies to your plan, please ignore my over share!

 

[michey1st]

Totally agree with your assessment of landscape fabric, Lisa! When we bought our house, the previous owner had it installed in the front beds. The bed had only been in for 6 months before we got our hands on it. In that time, the plants were starting to grow above the fabric and the soil beneath was gray and dusty. Weeds were growing on top of the fabric too, and those roots were tangled in the fabric and impossible to remove. Needless to say, we yanked it all out over a 3 day weekend. BLECH!

 

[Mmathis]

@toytika I think we're all still trying to get a grasp on your idea. Not that it's right or wrong -- we just can't envision the same thing you can. This is my interpretation of your idea, using the landscape fabric -- as a barrier to contain the water below the spill-over area. Of course, you'd want something substantial, like blocks [the gray in drawing] to actually CONTAIN the bog contents. I can see the fabric as being an impermeable membrane to keep the bog's water inside the bog so it could flow totally over into the pond from above. But the landscape fabric itself won't be adequate for that. In fact, most bogs that use blocks [or similar] don't use any thing other than the blocks to hold the bog in its place.

Toytika, not saying that THIS [my crude drawing] is what you had in mind, but it's the best I could come up with based on the information you've given us. Others might see something entirely different.

 

[toytika]

 

[toytika]

Last picture is what I made first two is it sitting inside bog with clean out pipe, you can't see it, but its def already doing what I intended. Had to put my fish in the new side to clean out the original pond and somehow one of them ended up in the bog, had to remove the plants in the baskets but thankfully none of the ones I had already planted or the stone. I think its function is more so to be able to access the pipe work under the gravel, I'm not using the typical pipe that most people use because I wanted it to coil, so my concern that it might burst or fail is what led me to have an easier way to access the bottom. Although it defy has held the stone and plants in place. The idea is to plant all the shallower rooting plants inside of the contraption and all the taller deeper rooting plants outside of it. If necessary I can always do what you do when you use it in the garden and put a hole in it, we will see I guess. Wanted to do things alot different with this build and test my creativity and problem solving skills so to speak

 

[Lisak1]

You have completely lost me now. So your plants aren't planted directly in the gravel but instead are sitting on the landscape fabric? Do you intend to take them out of the pots?

I applaud your desire to be creative and think outside the box! I'm just not seeing exactly what your goal/purpose is here. Could you take some pictures from a bit further away to give a bit of perspective to your set up?

 

[Mmathis]

@toytika I'm starting to see it a little bit more clearly now, but still not exactly. And as @Lisak1 said, I too applaud your desire for creativity and wanting to think outside the box! "Not wrong or right, just different!"

If this is just an experiment at this point, I can see why you would want access to the stuff underneath. Can you explain more about your tubing distribution system? I'm curious to see what you are doing with that as I am about to start building my larger bog.

So, is your "contraption" [I like that word -- I make a lot of "contraptions," and sometimes THAT is the only word I can use to describe them, LOL!] lined in landscape fabric? Can you give more details about what it looks like, how it's made, etc? And what is the purpose of the single "contraption?" Is that part of the experimental process, to see how those plants respond? Will there be gravel inside of it? Remember that if you poke holes in it, you might get some water transfer [and that's part of the experiment, right?], but any gravel inside will pass through the holes.....

I might have mentioned this before, but if not [Sorry, but my only child turns 20 today, so I feel a need to "parent."]........

1. try not to OVERTHINK things -- "simple" and uncomplicated are sometimes your friend -- I have lots of ideas that I will bring to this forum [as you are] and my GPF buddies are great at offering alternative, out-of-the-box solutions.....simple, simple, simple ideas that I never thought of.....
2. when experimenting [and I do it all the time -- that's how we learn], it's often best to limit the number of "experiments" going on at the same time. If you do too many "new" things at once, you might never know which ones actually worked
3. when looking for answers, ALWAYS keep in mind the "WHY" and "HOW" things work the way they do -- physics!