Berm around pond....Quick HELP please!

[joesandy1822]

Okay, this is totally dumb, I know. I should have realized it would happen BEFORE we started digging because it is just common sense. Well, hindsight is 20/20. Now I have a problem.

I marked out our pond with spray paint. Started digging with my son and husband. Did not want to pay to have the dirt removed, and do not need dirt for anything. So, what to do with the dirt? Okay, we will use a bunch of it at the end for the waterfall. Great. The rest we will pile along the sides of the pond and make a berm. BUT, you already know what I am going to say. It is too much dirt. Now my pond is much lower than the berm. It will not be level with the rest of the lawn. And I'm afraid the berm dirt is just going to cave in and fall into the pond eventually.

What can I do that is not going to cause us any more work? We still have a crap load of dirt to dig out. We are tired. It is not a huge pond (about 12x20), but we are so tired that I am considering not going the full 3' deep that I had planned. The deeper we dig, the harder it is to throw the dirt out of the pond, AND the more dirt we have that I don't know what to do with. I won't have koi, only goldfish and plants, so 2' is probably deep enough unless we get a horribly hard winter. I'm in Zone 5, and we definitely freeze.

Ok, I know this is a stupid newbie mistake, but now what? I just know it is going to end up falling into the pond. And also, with it up so much higher than the water level, you wouldn't be able to walk up to the edge of the pond and enjoy the fish.

It is late, and I'm tired, aching, with blistered hands. Maybe it's not the huge deal I think it is. I hope I wake up in the morning to some replies so I don't cry. Maybe I could just rake it out into the lawn and hope it would kill the grass, then I could just use it as garden area, which would be great. But had I PLANNED for that, I would have sprayed grass killer on the grass first. Now the grass will probably grow right through the dirt and then I will have a weeding mess on my hands.

GRRR. HELP please. And THANK YOU!!

Sandy

 

[fishin4cars]

May I suggest looking at my showcase thread link at the bottom of this post. It is a start to completion thread of my build, and we have about the same issue. I used most of the dirt for a LARGE burm them made a bog garden to help filter the water. Around the edges you really want the liner and top edge of the pond above ground level, this keeps water from the yard getting in the pond during a hard rain. Maybe my showcase thread can give you some ideas. Using the dirt for a water fall stream is always a added beauty to the pond and it adds oxygen too. If you still have more dirt may I suggest making a garden bed. If you raise pond plants you'll have all kinds of overgrowth each year. Toss them in the Raised garden bed and it becomes dual purpose, a compost bin/Raised garden.

On depth, I suggest trying to go as deep as possible. 3' is probably the bare minimum I would make a pond in Michigan, Seriously I would be looking for going closer to 4-5' deep that far north if your planning on not bringing the fish in every winter.

 

[Mmathis]

Sorry, this isn't a solution for you, but I couldn't help LOL! I'm laughing WITH you, not AT you! I feel your pain! A year ago, this could have been my post..... Oh, yeah, I think I did post about it..... Yes, we rented an excavator [most fun EVER!!], which made the digging so much easier. But Hubby couldn't quite understand just how far away from the "hole" that I wanted the dirt dumped, so we ended up with our pile almost falling back into the pond. Did a lot of moving "this end" of the dirt pile to "over there." Talk about wasted energy! I don't know why, but the dirt pile just looked so much bigger than the hole!! We added to the berms, then compacted, added and compacted. A year later, we still need to add some to the berm, so glad there is still enough dirt left for that.

I don't know about you, but we have this nasty clay soil. Hubby said, "Let's spread it around the yard." Yes, we do need fill-dirt in the yard, NOT clay. For the past few months I've been tilling store-bought compost/humus in with the clay-dirt pile and gradually hauling it around the yard, filling in low spots, etc. Not the best solution, but the best I could come up with. I'd actually thought about posting "free clay-dirt" on something like Craigslist! Soon as the yard dries out from our recent rains, the plan is to dig the "footings" for our bog, so we can consolidate the rest of the dirt into that structure.

So, at least we both know how we're NOT going to do our next ponds! I really don't think it was covered in "Ponds For Dummies!"

 

[Dave 54]

Advertize it in your local paper as free to the person wishing to collect it, we see this sort of thing all the time in the UK and people do want soil for their gardens .
Its just my take on all this from what I've read in our paper if you think it a stupid idea thats up to you but you can only try can't you, let us know if this is successful

rgrds

Dave

 

[addy1]

If you rake it out into the yard and the grass grows through it, just kill it then. I used every bit of dirt dug out, and searched for more, berms, waterfalls, mounds, gardens. Our dirt is crap, full of rocks but usable.

I had to use a tractor for our dig, no choice with our soil, still took weeks and weeks to dig it out, move the rock dirt dig more. They are easy to use, quick learning curve, maybe you can rent one.

My pond is 5 feet deep for our area, the fish hang out around 4 feet down in the winter, they just float almost totally still. Goldfish and plants survive no fish winter fish kills.

I feel your pain, never thought I would get done, sure was in good shape that summer!

 

[dieselplower]

I used a lot of the dirt I dug out to make a berm around the pond. It increased the depth and gallonage of the pond. Then I planted plants on top of the berm. It looks great.

 

[HTH]

I have always tired to incorporate the dirt I dig back into the landscape. That way if or when I have to fill in the pond the dirt is still there. So far I have moved twice.

It makes sense to have the pond water level a bit above grade to prevent water under the liner. Use some of the dirt on all 4 sides to raise the top of the pond. If you extend the added dirt a few feet out you can use up a lot of it but you will be looking at planting grass or sodding. What you add here is that much less you have to dig. Use a row or two of blocks, landscape timber, RR ties, or rocks (these go under the liner) to create the pond edge you want. Be creative.

I did give the dirt away from one pond. This was in a large city. I piled it on the concrete between my shop and the alley with a free dirt sign. In a few days it was gone.

 

[capewind]

If your yard is level, you may have a hard time losing it around the yard. If you can find a spot to use it, great, but for short money, you may even want to make some calls for someone to take it away. Check your phone book for a "bobcat service". You should be able to find someone to actually finish digging the hole AND haul away the dirt for $200-300. Hubby does some odd ball "light exccavation" and what you are describing falls under what I book as a two hour minimum for machine work. If there is machine access, I would bid what you are describing at $250-300 depending on how far the travel is. You would be paying most of the money for the contractors time loading/unloading the machine, and driving, then actually working in your yard. A decent operator could have your hole dug, and all the dirt hauled off your property in about an hour.

 

[joesandy1822]

I guess I should have specified more clearly that my pond edge was already created and painstakingly leveled at ground level, so using the berm dirt to raise the pond's water level is not an option unless I want to use the pond edge as a shelf, which I don't, or do more digging and remove that edge, which I don't want to do. Every video I watched on digging a pond said to create the pond's edge first, and then continue digging down to create any ledges and the final depth. In hindsight, yes, I would have just started in the middle and threw the dirt to the edge, which would allow me to have the whole pond raised and have to dig less.

Live and learn. If I ever do this again, 1. I will rent an excavator and 2. I will know what to do with the extra dirt first.

Off to dig.....

 

[joesandy1822]

Sorry, this isn't a solution for you, but I couldn't help LOL! I'm laughing WITH you, not AT you! I feel your pain! A year ago, this could have been my post..... Oh, yeah, I think I did post about it..... Yes, we rented an excavator [most fun EVER!!], which made the digging so much easier. But Hubby couldn't quite understand just how far away from the "hole" that I wanted the dirt dumped, so we ended up with our pile almost falling back into the pond. Did a lot of moving "this end" of the dirt pile to "over there." Talk about wasted energy! I don't know why, but the dirt pile just looked so much bigger than the hole!! We added to the berms, then compacted, added and compacted. A year later, we still need to add some to the berm, so glad there is still enough dirt left for that.

I don't know about you, but we have this nasty clay soil. Hubby said, "Let's spread it around the yard." Yes, we do need fill-dirt in the yard, NOT clay. For the past few months I've been tilling store-bought compost/humus in with the clay-dirt pile and gradually hauling it around the yard, filling in low spots, etc. Not the best solution, but the best I could come up with. I'd actually thought about posting "free clay-dirt" on something like Craigslist! Soon as the yard dries out from our recent rains, the plan is to dig the "footings" for our bog, so we can consolidate the rest of the dirt into that structure.

So, at least we both know how we're NOT going to do our next ponds! I really don't think it was covered in "Ponds For Dummies!"

We are taking a lunch break from digging. I am SO glad you shared this story with me. It really helps to know I'm not the only one. I read, and read, and read, and watched videos for months. I really thought I had this under control and had my brain wrapped around it. But this one area was not really covered. I like your comment about the "Ponds For Dummies"! That's exactly what I feel like right now. As my son shovels it out, I have been just shoveling it into a wheelbarrow and moving it into a big pile "over there" for later use. The berm is way too high, so this is what I will do with the extra. Yep, I'm killing a lot of grass......but grass is way over-rated anyway isn't it? If I could get away with it, I'd get rid of it completely and just have native wild grasses and wildflowers. My snooty neighbor probably wouldn't like it, but to me there are not many things prettier than a meadow of wildflowers (to some people, WEEDS).

Thanks again for the story!

Sandy

 

[joesandy1822]

Advertize it in your local paper as free to the person wishing to collect it, we see this sort of thing all the time in the UK and people do want soil for their gardens .
Its just my take on all this from what I've read in our paper if you think it a stupid idea thats up to you but you can only try can't you, let us know if this is successful

May just do this. We've been getting rid of a lot of unused stuff lately on Craigslist. I bet somebody could use it. Will wait for a few weeks though and see if I end up needing it. I'm just reshoveling it into a wheelbarrow as it comes out of the hole now and making a pile out of the way.

Thanks for the suggestion!

Sandy

 

[joesandy1822]

If you rake it out into the yard and the grass grows through it, just kill it then. I used every bit of dirt dug out, and searched for more, berms, waterfalls, mounds, gardens. Our dirt is crap, full of rocks but usable.

I think this is what will happen. I will rake as much as I need out away from the pond (probably about 5' width) and put the rest in a pile somewhere. If the grass grows through, I will deal with it then. Thanks!

Sandy

 

[joesandy1822]

Thank you to EVERYBODY who replied with suggestions! We are just going to put the extra dirt in a pile out of the way for now and deal with it later. I will create a planting area approximately 5' wide around the pond which will allow use of SOME of the dirt, but I'm not using too much because the water level will be too far below grade if I do it that way. In hindsight, I would have done it different, but as all of you have probably already figured out, you learn a lot as you go. My NEXT pond, I will not make this mistake again, but I can guarantee I will make others!

Have a good one, everybody! And thanks again for taking time to help.

Sandy :blueflower:

 

[Mmathis]

Keep in mind that your berm is going to settle. Be sure to compact it really well as you go. If it's like our dirt, just when you think you have it JUST RIGHT, you realize you need to add MORE dirt. I would lightly sprinkle it, too -- that helps the compaction.

Best of luck to you!

 

[dieselplower]

Just out of curiousity... You said your pond is leveled at ground level... Did you know that it is not a very good? You do want the edges of the pond to be above the surrounding area so that you don't get too much runoff into the pond.