flashing again

[Jenny]

Hey guys! For anyone who was following my last thread, the flashing is back. The fish have been moved to the 5000 container and seem to like it, but the flashing has come back.

 

[Smaug]

Definetly time to get a scraping and a microscope.

 

[Tula]

I agree, if it's been an ongoing problem, the only way you'll truly know what's wrong is to scrape and scope....unless you want to go the shot gun approach for treatment.

A 5000 gallon pond sounds wonderful !

 

[barryian]

Hey guys! For anyone who was following my last thread, the flashing is back. The fish have been moved to the 5000 container and seem to like it, but the flashing has come back.

If the fish are in good shape, eating well and in good spirits, then shotgun approach might not be the thing to do. No offense @Tula ... Something is irritating them. Is that red mark on one of the koi gone, still there or worse. If nothing is worse by now, I tend to think it is water chemistry. If there are physical signs ( weeks have passed ), then I tend to think you need a person with a microscope to take a scraping. If that's impossible and there are physical signs such as red sores, etc, then a shotgun approach might be your only option.
If that's the case, I would recommend one of 2 treatments, one of which you might want someone experienced to help unless you are an experienced dedicated koi person. Let's see what you say to the above ....

What is a 5000 container?

 

[Tula]

If the fish are in good shape, eating well and in good spirits, then shotgun approach might not be the thing to do. No offense @Tula ... Something is irritating them. Is that red mark on one of the koi gone, still there or worse. If nothing is worse by now, I tend to think it is water chemistry. If there are physical signs ( weeks have passed ), then I tend to think you need a person with a microscope to take a scraping. If that's impossible and there are physical signs such as red sores, etc, then a shotgun approach might be your only option.
If that's the case, I would recommend one of 2 treatments, one of which you might want someone experienced to help unless you are an experienced dedicated koi person. Let's see what you say to the above ....

What is a 5000 container?

No offense taken. I agree with what you posted, only suggesting shot gun approach, if scrape and scope, not possible.

 

[barryian]

No offense taken. I agree with what you posted, only suggesting shot gun approach, if scrape and scope, not possible.

Yes with all due respect Tula, I should have realized we were on the same page ...

 

[Jenny]

The red spots seem like they're entirely gone. No sores or anything like that. I honestly don't know what to think. I see them flashing so rarely, but when they do flash they seem really uncomfortable and desperate to dislodge something...then it goes away and I don't see it again for a long time. And they seem to do it the most when they're hungry! I've done hours of research and just can't figure out what to do. I don't have a microscope, but I'm thinking it might be time to invest in one. I'm also starting them on medicated food, which is supposed to help...

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Are all of your fish flashing?
And just to get things clarified, is part of the exhibited 'flashing' rubbing against rocks or other objects or are the fish just making abrupt turns in the water?

 

[barryian]

Are all of your fish flashing?
And just to get things clarified, is part of the exhibited 'flashing' rubbing against rocks or other objects or are the fish just making abrupt turns in the water?

I'm curious what you have to say Meyer. This must be going on over a month if not longer which makes me wonder, is it flashing they're doing? They're asymptomatic also.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

I'm curious what you have to say Meyer. This must be going on over a month if not longer which makes me wonder, is it flashing they're doing? They're asymptomatic also.

The sheer length of time that this behavior has manifest is what prompted the questions. I have had some doubt since this was first posted as to whether this was truly 'flashing' or just erratic swim behavior.

 

[Jenny]

It has to be flashing! What else could it be? It seems like at times they rub against the bottom of the pond and other times they don't rub against anything. But again, what else could it be?

 

[Meyer Jordan]

According to Dr Eric Johnson DVM (the widely accepted expert on ornamental fish disease)-

"Flashing is a condition in which fish quickly lay over, then dash their sides against something in the pond. Often, they are trying to dislodge a parasite from their surfaces. In many other instances, they have been put into new water, water with a new pH, water with some Chlorine, or water with some other chemical irritant (high Ammonia levels for example.)

Flashing is normal in fish, when you see it once or twice per day per fish that would be 'okay' but if you see fish flashing two at a time in a pond it's more than coincidence and water quality, and CHANGES in water quality should be evaluated. For some people, it's simply the daily fluctuations in pH that cause the problem.


In other cases it's a parasitic issue. Several parasites cause profound flashing including but not limited to Costia, Flukes and Trichodina."

 

[barryian]

According to Dr Eric Johnson DVM (the widely accepted expert on ornamental fish disease)-

"Flashing is a condition in which fish quickly lay over, then dash their sides against something in the pond. Often, they are trying to dislodge a parasite from their surfaces. In many other instances, they have been put into new water, water with a new pH, water with some Chlorine, or water with some other chemical irritant (high Ammonia levels for example.)

Flashing is normal in fish, when you see it once or twice per day per fish that would be 'okay' but if you see fish flashing two at a time in a pond it's more than coincidence and water quality, and CHANGES in water quality should be evaluated. For some people, it's simply the daily fluctuations in pH that cause the problem.


In other cases it's a parasitic issue. Several parasites cause profound flashing including but not limited to Costia, Flukes and Trichodina."

But then again, this isn't profound. It comes in waves! I haven't seen one of my koi flash in so many years, I can barely recall it. I think in many many cases as in this, it has to do with water parameters.
Not tooting my horn but my water parameters don't change. No pH fluctuations whatsoever. No flashing either, zero. So, 3 questions @Jenny , have you kept a close eye on pH from early morning to later in the evening? What do you do to buffer your pH? Lastly, what is this container you moved them to? Would love to see someone get to the bottom of this. Would you agree @Meyer Jordan ... Flashing all this time asymptomatically would nearly rule out parasites?

 

[Jenny]

I have tested pH in the morning and night and there was little to no fluctuation. I think it was something like .1 or .2. The pH is in the range I would want it in. I do nothing to buffer my pH, though. The container I moved them to is a 5000 gallon above ground swimming pool with an EPDM liner.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Flashing all this time asymptomatically would nearly rule out parasites?

I tend to agree. This behavior, as described, does not lean towards being parasite induced.