Help with pond losing water

[Pegs]

Hope this is the right place to post for help. All of a sudden my pond is losing water at a very fast rate and only to near the bottom of the skimmer/filter. Pump still pumps to waterfall but is sucking air. Turned pump off and filled and no water loss. Savio skimmer/filter and Savio waterfall bio filter. Pond lined with EPDM aprox 8 years old. Location SW Washington. I uploaded a photo to media. Am I right in eliminating anything above the filter as a potential leak? The "water seeks it's own level" type of thing? I am now disabled and can't crawl on the rocks to get down into the filter so have a person coming to check it on Friday. With chatting he said it may be the waterfall? to me that doesn't make sense. Thank you in advance for your help.

 

[DrCase]

Waterfalls and the piping too them are the first place to look .

 

[morewater]

As Docta Case says, the first suspect would be the line and/or the waterfall.

You're losing water to the point that the pump is running dry, then you're not losing water any more. Ergo, the pump has pumped out what it's able to pump out, so your "leak" source is between the pump and the water return to the pond.

 

[Nepen]

Have you look around to see any wet spot around the pond?

After refill, try running the pond again and observe to see where the water is high. A little leak, over time can be a lot. Plants can push water to go to different course. Falling leaves / falling sticks can accumulate and make the water go over them and out of the pond.

 

[Pegs]

Ha,ha, "wet spot" it's Washington everything is wet! I think we've had 2 dry days in the past month! Thanks all...my sometimes too analytical brain is having a problem understanding how it can be above the pump when the waterfall doesn't quit/go dry. It's leaving enough water to continue to run the falls, but low enough the pump makes the sucking air sound, When I filled it WITH pump running I left water on full force for about 4 hours and it was apparently going out as fast as going in as this is when I knew I had a problem. Seemed strange with all the rain that it was low in the first place. I designed and supervised the install of the pond and this is driving me nuts! Not to mention how does that much water just vanish!

 

[Nepen]

wetter spot then hehe.

Here's what you can try. Fill the water in and leave it, not run the pump. Then see if you still lose water. If so, then you get a puncture liner somewhere. Let the water drop until it stop, then inspect the liner at and a bit above water level. a lot of time it's at the crease/fold of the liner.


I just hope that it's just leaves that divert the water, so it's an easy fix than replacing pipe or liner.

 

[Pegs]

Nepen, tried that and if pump is off no water loss.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

99.9% of leaks in a pond can be found in those areas of moving water such as waterfalls and streams. Much less often in the plumbing...loose coupling, hole in pipe, etc.

 

[morewater]

Nepen, tried that and if pump is off no water loss.

If you've no water loss after filling the pond, but leaving the pump off, but water loss as soon as you turn the pump on, then your leak is between the pump and the water feature or from the water feature itself.

Pretty simple, really. Shouldn't be too hard to identify and to rectify.

 

[sissy]

Hope they find it and easiest way to find a leak is look outside the pond soft wet dirt means water is leaking near by

 

[morewater]

Judging from the photo that you posted of your pond, I would suspect that the source of your leak is somewhere in that long stream/waterfall. Once your guy has thoroughly looked over the watercourse, have him take a broom handle (blunt end, please) and gently poke around the bottom of the pond to see if you've developed a "hippo" (a waterbed-like feel to the liner).

"Hippos" develop when water is able to seep under the liner, pushing the liner up and away from the underlying ground. These occur when there is a great influx, or a steady persistent influx of water that the underlying ground is simply not able to absorb.

"Hippos" can be drained by threading your garden hose under the liner, turning on the garden hose water, crimping the hose near the tap, removing the hose and then lying the hose downhill from the pond location.

Simple siphon action will allow you to drain out a "hippo", if indeed you do have one.

 

[Pegs]

Okay I can understand hippos and how they could form..what I don't understand...if there is a leak in the upper falls or stream why would the pump not pump itself dry? One time I let the water get very low (operator error) and the waterfall slowed to a trickle..not now, only reason, besides water level, you can tell is the sound the pump is making from sucking some air. I know I've got someone coming but trying to isolate the problem a bit to save tearing up more than necessary....i live in the total boonies so no pond "experts" here called a landscaping guy. Thanks to all as enjoying reading the replies and learning...brain keeps going back to basic physics....if leak is above where the water quits leaking- would the pump not keep pumping it out?

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Okay I can understand hippos and how they could form..what I don't understand...if there is a leak in the upper falls or stream why would the pump not pump itself dry? One time I let the water get very low (operator error) and the waterfall slowed to a trickle..not now, only reason, besides water level, you can tell is the sound the pump is making from sucking some air. I know I've got someone coming but trying to isolate the problem a bit to save tearing up more than necessary....i live in the total boonies so no pond "experts" here called a landscaping guy. Thanks to all as enjoying reading the replies and learning...brain keeps going back to basic physics....if leak is above where the water quits leaking- would the pump not keep pumping it out?
View attachment 95805 View attachment 95805

I would be willing to bet that the water level is not stabilizing at the line on the skimmer faceplate that you indicated. Given sufficient time the water level will drop below the skimmer weir opening. You state that the pump is "sucking air" (cavitating). If it is sucking air it is not pumping water, at least no where near the volume that it would normally pump. Eventually the pump would be sucking nothing but air, quickly overheat and burn-up. What sometimes confuses people is it you cut power to the pump when it is "sucking air", the skimmer box will refill with water and when you reconnect the power the pump operates at full flow, but only until the skimmer box is empty again due to the fact that with the water level at the mark you indicated in your photo water can not refill the skimmer box at the same rate as the pump is expelling it.
Your water loss problem is in your waterfall/stream area.

 

[Pegs]

It's been at that level for over a week actually higher now as it's been raining! Of course the pump is off as I know the low level would burn the pump, and I'm very lucky it didn't as I have no idea how long it's been like this as it had been a couple of weeks since I cleaned the filter. I will post after the guy comes to check it fingers crossed he can find it quickly (and cheaply)

 

[addy1]

Welcome to our group! Sounds like you have gotten great advice.

Every time I have a leak, some times catastrophic leak (one time over 18 inches of water gone............poof!) it has been a exit of one of my loop ponds, a plant blocked exit or the stock tank exit, recently my protection screen got knocked off by a critter and lily leaves blocked the exit, one of the water falls or the long stream. Every time it has been plants or sometimes a deer walking moving a stone. But usually a plant that decided to grow well and changed the water path.

Every spring I have to walk the stream and fix deer damage, not liner damage, but the stomp on the edge and move stones. They eat the plants over winter on the steep stream slope.

It has never been the liner.