Relined due to leak & now ammonia is spiking & fish look affected by it

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I inherited a koi pond with a home purchase about 10 weeks ago. The pond was leaking in two places and despite many attempts, we were unable to find the second source. We had to fix it because it was getting below the skimmer level of the filter and we were worried it could get to shallow during winter for the fish to survive. A local pond "expert"/builder who was recommended to us just helped us reline the pond for several reasons (said it was the way it was built that was the problem). The leak has stopped, but despite my many concerns about maintaining/restarting the biofiltration especially during fall as temps are falling, I was told not to worry and not to take any special measures including reusing the old pond water, replacing some underlayment with plants growing on it that they had on the pond bottom, or getting any bacteria, etc.. I had my worries but felt I should trust him. So now I have three roughly 18-20 inch, 5 year old koi that I have become completely attached to and they are sitting in a new pond syndrome pond with no active bio filtration and the ammonia is spiking. Before this, it was always zero. Now I've got 1 ppm. All other info is below. I have done a 10% water change and added a half cup of Pond Prime (chloramine and ammonia etc. binder) to the ~900 gallon pond. Bubblers are at highest level for aeration. I put in 250ml of Seachem Stability with bacteria yesterday (meant for Aquariums but all I could get locally right away). I have another bottle I could add today if that is advised. Seachem Gel Filter Inoculant is coming tomorrow by mail along with Microbe Lift Fall Pond Prep, which also has bacteria supposedly. I've stopped feeding and was only feeding very sparingly before. My source water tests at .5ppm for ammonia so water changes will have less than the usual effect. I've got one lily in the pond but no other plants. All three fish are traumatized by the move and change and one is acting funny. All are a little sluggish but one is moving less than the others and just hanging in the water a good bit. It's usually my most active fish. She is hugging her middle/back fins to her side so that they are generally not visible most of the time. The pond person used a koi net to move them (not a sock or bag) and was very careful, but this one fish really thrashed and resisted a lot so I don't know if she was injured. I'm new to this so I don't know how much of a change in their behavior can be attributed to the water cooling each day a little more as fall sets in (nighttime temps have been in the 40s to low 50s), and how much is ammonia poisoning. Any help on anything I can possibly do would be much appreciated. I can't bear the thought of these fish not making it.

Water quality
* Ammonia Level (pond): 1 ppm
* Nitrite Level (pond): 0
* Ammonia Level (tap water): .5ppm
* Nitrite Level (tap water): will add later
* Ph Level, pond (If possible, KH, GH and chlorine):7.6
* Ph Level, tap water (If possible, KH, GH and chlorine): 7.4
* Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API drops

Other useful information:
* Water temperature?: 62
* Pond size and how long has it been running? 900 gallons, ~5x11x 2 to 4 deep. Three days since relining a 5-year-old pond
* What is the name and size of the filter(s)? : Savio 1450 gph
* How often do you change the water and how much? Weekly 10% changes. Did one yesterday, but have held off today so far because I'm afraid it will slow biofilter establishment and because source water has ammonia.
* How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change?: 1 day, 90 gallons
* How many fish in the pond and their type? 3 koi: 2 sanke females and one ogan male, all 5 years old and previously very healthy
* What kind of water additives or conditioners have you used? Pond Prime, Stability, Prime
* What do you feed your fish and how often? Dr. Fosters Spring and Fall food. Usually two level tbs. per day right now and tapering. But prior to reline no food for 3 days and then after one tbs. on Tues. and Wed. No food since Wed.
* Any new fish added to the pond recently? No
* Any medications added to the pond? No
* List entire medication/treatment history for fish and pond None that I know of. Inherited pond 8 weeks ago.
* Any unusual findings on the fish? No
* Any unusual behaviour like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? Only the male ogon ate normally on Tues. & Wed. My sickest seeming fish (usually the most athletic and aggressive eater) ate almost nothing. The other female sanke also ate less and more slowly and clumsily. All three are acting different as noted above, but the one sake is less active than the others and is crimping fins.
 

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tbendl

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Mattie welcome, so sorry to hear about this. That builder "expert" should be hung by his toenails. I don't know but I'm sure some of the more seasoned members will jump in and help. I would also search this site for ammonia spikes. If you go to the top right corner you can search by key words and hopefully find some answers. Good luck, please keep us updated and again, hopefully some more knowledgeable members will jump in.
 
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No more water changes
Keep using Prime
Maximum aeration/water circulation
Do not add bacteria additives
Do not feed fish
Take daily readings of ammonia and nitrite and post the results here. Ideally a morning and evening PH number would be great.
Post a KH number when you have it.

Is the only filter the skimmer? You don't have any additional mechanical or biological filtration?
Thanks for providing all that information.(y)
 
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My heart is sinking. Was just watching and two of them are now seriously flashing. I have not seen them do this before. They are doing full 360 rolls. The most affected one is doing it the most. The KH is at about 50 (3 drops to turn yellow with API drop test). I will check PH again this evening. I have the skimmer with polyester pads and another pad in the waterfall. No other filtration. The skimmer pads were in the pond for about a month before the relining this week. The waterfall pad is new (there wasn't one before). So basically no bacteria. The relining took about 8 hours. I kept the pads in old pond water during that time. But I'm guessing any bio I had still died. I had a bioverse ball in the pond but did not put it back in based on the advice of the pond "expert". I believe the pond is about 900 gallons and I only added enough prime for just under 600 gallons, basically splitting the difference between my calculations for how much is in the pond and what the previous owners told me (450 gallons). How much more and how often can I add it? I'm so sad. I should have trusted my instincts.
 
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Is there anyone on this forum in the Boston area with a pond that could host my fish until the pond cycles...it it even can this time of year? Would that be a solution?
 

Meyer Jordan

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No more water changes
Keep using Prime
Maximum aeration/water circulation
Do not add bacteria additives
Do not feed fish
Take daily readings of ammonia and nitrite and post the results here. Ideally a morning and evening PH number would be great.
Post a KH number when you have it.

Is the only filter the skimmer? You don't have any additional mechanical or biological filtration?
Thanks for providing all that information.(y)

I agree with everything that MitchM has stated. Your fish are experiencing acute stress caused by an almost complete change in environmental parameters.
Although your total Ammonia level is 1.0, what is really important is the un-ionized or free Ammonia level. This is greatly influenced by both pH and water temperature. In your case, the time of year has likely been your savior for the un-ionized Ammonia level of 1.0 Total Ammonia at a pH of 7.6 and a water temperature of 62F is 0.015 which is below the 0.020 level at which real problems can occur. Your fish are safe at this level and should slowly adapt and survive as the pond's Nitrogen cycle re-establishes itself.
As MitchM said stop:
-water changes
-addition of bacteria
-addition of any pond treatments other than Prime
-do not feed fish for now.

Keep us informed if any major change in pH level or fish behavior and appearance occurs.
 
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OK, it's also raining, which should help lower the PH a little in a safe and gradual way. May I ask why it's bad to add bacteria (not doubting, just want to understand). Should I get extra aeration? I have a Pond Air 2 on maximum setting.
 
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OK, it's also raining, which should help lower the PH a little in a safe and gradual way. May I ask why it's bad to add bacteria (not doubting, just want to understand). Should I get extra aeration? I have a Pond Air 2 on maximum setting.

It's no problem to ask questions for us to back up what we're saying.
"Bacteria in a bottle" additives are supposed to contain bacteria that require oxygen to survive. The oxygen in a bottle will be depleted before the bacteria is released into the pond. The bacteria will be dead when it gets to you, so all you are doing is adding partially decomposed organic matter which will only contribute to a higher ammonia level. Your fish plus existing organic matter will be adding ammonia to the pond already.

The best thing you can do is to encourage existing bacteria growth conditions by oxygenating the water. That is accomplished by surface water movement.
 
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Thank you, Mitch, that is very helpful to understand (and thank you everyone else too). Three more questions on actions I could take:

1. I have three 50-gallon rain barrels that are all full of water right now. If I test the water in those and they don't have ammonia like my .5ppm tap water, would it be helpful to do a water change with the rain water? A little at a time?

2. I also have a roughly 100-150 gallon quarantine tub for emergencies. Would it make sense to put them in the tub with an aquarium filter and just keep changing the water to keep toxins low while I wait for the pond to cycle?

3. How often should I keep adding the Pond Prime (ammonia binder) and can this stuff expire? I have no idea how old the bottle I have is. It came with the pond, which I've only had since late July. It's a big bottle, so they could have had it a while.
 
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No problem, Mattie.
Your pond water needs to stabilize. No water changes.
It's great that you have a quarantine location, but I think it's premature to transfer your fish to that right now.
Before we decide to add more Prime, do you have a nitirite reading yet?

.
 
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New 6:30 p.m. post-dusk test results:

ph 7.8 (unchanged since morning but it's been raining heavily so upper level water could be skewed lower)
ammonia 1 ppm
nitrite 0 ppm
nitrate 0 ppm

All three fish were flashing/corkscrewing frequently as it got dark.
 
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Do you happen to have any of the old liner left? If you do and there is living carpet algae on it, it might help to put it in the pond.
 
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We put in the new liner right over the old one. Is there any other way to get algae?
 

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We put in the new liner right over the old one. Is there any other way to get algae?
The fist traces of algae should be already beginning to colonize the submerged liner surface. No action is required on your part. This colonization is a naturally occurring process and is a very important component in the ultimate balance and stability of your pond.
 
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New 6:30 p.m. post-dusk test results:

ph 7.8 (unchanged since morning but it's been raining heavily so upper level water could be skewed lower)
ammonia 1 ppm
nitrite 0 ppm
nitrate 0 ppm

All three fish were flashing/corkscrewing frequently as it got dark.

It's too bad that the fish are showing signs of stress.
Ammonia poisoning is not reversible, and we don't know what concentration that they were exposed to. We can only go forward from here.
It's good that your nitrite is zero, but it still needs to be monitored daily, along with ammonia.

The algae and organic debris that existed in the system before may or may not contain live beneficial bacteria, so it is what it is for now.
The best thing to do is to create the best conditions for bacteria to thrive right now. Maximum aeration and water movement.

.
 

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