Submersible vs. External pumps....

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I will be buying a pump soon for my pond that is 10' W x 15' L x 2.5' D roughly 2800 gals with a 100 gal bio stock tank and 7' of head. Until now I have always thought of going with a submersible pump until someone mentioned going with an external pump with this size of a pond. What are the pros n cons of both types of pumps, price, noise, wattage usage, set up etc. Any and all comments, suggestions, help would be greatly appreciated...Also what size pump do you guys think I should go with?
 
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You will get many opinions on this subject. I have had both submersibles and now externals, so I can speak about my experience with both.

You don't mention how long your pipe runs are, how big your pipes will be, your filtration, etc to give you a good figure on what kinda pump you'd ned. But just based on the info you've provided, I would not get something smaller than 4000-4500 gph.

Submersible:

Positives:
1. Submersibles are great because you just toss 'em in the water and plug it in. Very simple and easy.
2. Great for smaller ponds
3. Can be cheaper, but once they push large gph, they tend to mirror prices of externals.
4. Quiet

Negatives:

1. Have to get your hands wet to maintain them, and potentially receive an electric shock. Uncommon, but it happens. It's often not easy fishing a submersible full of water outta the pond, particularly from an underground pond. It was a back-breaker for me, as the cage was all full of water.
2. Clogs with debris inside pond and need to be frequently cleaned. Putting them up on bricks so they don't sit directly on the pond floor can help here.
3. usually not as efficient from a energy consumption perspective as external
4. If it gets clogged, the pump can float up and begin dumping water outta the pond. It happened to me several times, and left me with inches of water and nearly lost the fish had I not caught it in time. One time I was on vacation, which was not pleasant. A few leaves had fallen into the pond and gotten sucked around the cage, causing it to float up. Had I not had the pump on a brick, it would have certainly left the pond dry. (so, if going with a submersible, DO NOT put it on the pond floor). However, one time it tipped over and the fish were flopping on the pond floor. So make sure you secure your pump.

External:

Positive:

1. Sits outside the pond, so it's dry hands maintenance. No need to get in there and fetch it outta the water. You can clearly see what is happening with the pump visually at all times.
2. Very energy efficient and can deal with head more effectively. Good for larger ponds of 2,000+ gallons
3. Quiet
4. Has a leaf trap in front of it so debris is stopped before getting to the pump and grinding it to smithereens and sending it to the filter/pump. This fact also protects the pump from damage.
5. Can deal with head more effectively. Long pipe runs, very high waterfalls, etc. Externals are made to push water, which submersibles are good at sucking water.

Negatives:

1. Can be more expensive upfront, but you usually make up for that with lower wattage use pretty quickly. A larger submersible such as you would need, will likely be very close in cost however.
2. This is not typically plug and play like a submersible. You need to think about piping and how it will lay out. The pump will also need to be below water line so that it can receive flooded suction and be gravity fed. [I don't really consider this a negative, but I guess someone who was intimidated by this fact would).
3. If the pump isn't below waterline, you have to deal with priming it. And it's just not the most effective use of the pump. [Again, I don't consider this a negative, because a priming pot/leaf trap in front solves this with a check valve in the water.]
4. Typically has to be protected from direct weather. Needs to be covered with something, but still receive air circulation. Also, put it on a cinderblock to prevent it from getting flooded in a rain storm.

Also, in regard to an external and the fear folks have about either popping a hole in the side of their liner or using a bottom drain (weather retro or standard), if you can gravity feed a barrel or stock tank--the external can feed directly from that. The pump does not know where water line is. That is, if waterline is the pond or a barrel.

I'm sure others will give you different opinions from people that have had experiences with both externals and submersibles as well. For me, having used both of these types of pumps, the external wins hands down. It's just been way easier for me to maintain, has been gentler on my electric bill, and they have more power to push through pipe runs, waterfalls, filters, UV's, etc and the whole mangle of filtration. I certainly could not have a sumbersible doing what my external does. And I haven't had to deal with a tipped over, clogged pump again.

That's just one opinion. I'm sure you'll get others.
 

koiguy1969

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i havent yet tried a external pump....so i can only state my experience with submeresables...i have only had to clean mine a couple times in 3 years, this is a rarity for me because i use large prefilters with "matala style"inserts plumbed to 1&1/4 " hose and those are weighted down and a peice of black nylon string is tied to them which i keep the other ends tucked under a rock or loosely wrapped around a plant. so i can pull the hose up near the surface and remove the prefilters for cleaning once every couple weeks or so, or as needed. they are tee'ed off and placed at different spots in the pond so i draw water from different areas of the pond ...pretty much eliminating dead spots...kind of like have movable BDs. this is amazingly effective and cost effective for me.
 

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i have only used submersibles ...for about 9 years a titan pump mine doesnt clog it sits right on the bottom of my pond and sucks everything up from the floor including large leaves i clean it once during the summer takes a couple of mins to do and if the power is switched off i dont see how you could get a shock from it, i also have a laguna but i dont think they are as powerfull as the titan ...but my pond is only small so maybe if i had a large pond i would go external
 
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Sounds like there are positives n negatives to both. I want to make this pond a successful and enjoyable one thats why I ask for you guys opinions. To give u the other details I left out, my pipe is 32' long from the pond to waterfall base, waterfall is about 5' high. I plan on going with 1 1/2" piping. Not sure if to use hard PVC or the black kink tubing?? My filtration will be a 100 gal stock tank with the standard matala, poly strapping, batting etc materials I have heard used here. I really respect ur folks opinions on this and like I said I want to make this an enjoyable experience not a burden. Any one else have their views on my situation please dont hesitate. Thnxs !
 
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I would not do a 32 foot run to a 5' high waterwafall with a sumbersible. And then a 100g stock tank to boot. What you're describing is external pump territory. That's just my little ol' opinion.

Having had both types of pumps, if that situation were mine, it would have an external on it.
 
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I'm with my girlfriend koikeepr.:rolleyes: The only way to go IMHO is external.
 
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that's a long run. You would have about 11.4 in of head loss for every ten feet of tubing. So that's about 3 ft of head from the tubing and that's if you use flex PVC. You add 1ft of head for each 90 you have so the less fittings the better. So 5ft of head from the waterfall and 3 ft from the tubing is 8ft. You need a pump that will do about 3000GPH at 8ft of head. If you use 2in flex pipe though you would only have 6ft of head. less drag on the larger pipe. According the the sequence website the Sequence Model 750 Series 4200SEQ12 would do 2600GPH at 6 ft but only 2000GPH at 8 ft.
 
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I called a local Sequence dealer and he has quoted me $350 for a Sequence750 4200 SEQ12 with a 6in basket. Consequently he is a pond builder and is going to come over to look at my setup and give me better advice. Wow I cant wait to make this hole into a pond....External it is. Thanks everyone!
 
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Let us know what he suggest as far as building and prices.
koi pond or garden pond which one do you want?
.
 
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Thats great DoDad....will be PM you here shortly. Thanks koikeepr I wont even bother calling him back forget it! I will be doing all the work myself to save monies. I want to build a pond to put fish like shubunkins, comets maybe koi in later on. Thnxs all !
 
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Am I going to have to put the pump below water line 2 1/2 - 3 feet or will this priming pot/leaf trap do the trick with putting the pump ground level and am I going to have to cut a hole in the liner or can I just put a hose/pipe in the deepest point of the pond and have the pump push the water up and out? Sorry for all the questions
 

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