43 replies to this topic

[sevensandeights]

I have been reading this forum and the koiphen forums for the past few weeks and I have also spoken briefly with the local pond building material and plants supplier. The more I read, the more questions I have - bottom drains, 55 gallon drum filters, back-flushing systems, fines filters, aeration, uv filters etc.! I thought digging the hole was going to be the hard part!

Specifically, I want to know how much filtration I need for my pond and my expectations.

My pond is tiered with a series of 24 inch wide waterfalls (4 feet total height) that spill into a roughly 800 upper gallon pond that spills into a 2500 gallon lower pond via a 40 inch wide spillway. Both ponds and the waterfall will be lined with Firestone PondGuard and I do not want to use a bottom drain.

The pond is decorative and will have a many surface and potted plants in it. I will most likely have a few fish (max of 4 or 5 full size goldfish or koi - I'm OK with less if the pond won't support that many) in the lower pond only. The pond will be in direct sunlight for 60% of the daylight hours.

I have a 4800 gph Pondmaster Proline XP HY-Drive pump on order and it will be pumping water about 10 feet laterally and 4.5 feet high to the waterfall.

I would like the water to look clean but it doesn't have to be crystal clear. Max depth of the lower pond is 2 feet and it would be ideal for the liner to be covered with a film of algae or dirt to cover up the black pond liner (to look more "natural") but have the water clear enough that I can see the bottom (for maintenance).

Will the waterfall alone be enough to keep the pond reasonably clear?

My one DIY idea was to have my waterfall pump flow through the bottom of a 5 gallon bucket filled with lava rock prior to filling the reservoir at the top of my waterfall. The resevoir is about 15 gallons (made out of cinder block and lined with PondGuard) and I could fit the 5 gallon bucket inside of it with the pump inlet at the bottom of the bucket. The local pond supply guy sells something just like this - a ten gallon reservoir with integrated weir that gets filled with foam blocks inside a mesh bag.

[leeannecastro]

Welcome. Your pond sounds like it will be gorgeous.
You sound like you are on the right track but I would go larger with my filtration. A 55 gallon bio filter (or maybe 2) would be ideal.

[koikeepr]

i see where you are going with this. I do think your idea of a pump reservoir is a good one, as it will serve as a bit of a pre-filter so that thick gunk won't get to it. This is a good idea, but I would not use lava rock, as it is a complete pain the butt to deal with it when you need to clean it. Instead I would opt for something like 1 matala mat (I would get the green colored one) or a big filter sponge that you cut in a circle to fit your bucket and then lay on top of your pump. That way, you can just easily take that out and give it a good shake to remove the debris and not have to be dealing with moving lava rock around.

Now, leanne is right, however, in that your buckets sound like pre-filters...but in a pond THAT size, what is your thought for a REAL filter? I think she's hit the nail on the head with the need for at least 1 55 gallon barrel.

It sounds like you want to go with a submersible pump, but I wish you would have gone with another pump. I am particularly unfond of that hy-drive pump because it is a huge electricity hog. It uses 280 watts, which is a lot. Their newer hybrid pump is even worse at around 380 watts for the same amount of water push. The have smaller mag drive pumps that are terrific work horses and use a lot less power. But in your situation, these would not work. What you're paying for with the hy-drive and the hy-brid pondmaster pumps is the fact that they can be used either submersed or in-line (out of the pond). But it sounds like you are going to use it submersed.

By comparison, the Laguna MaxFlo 4200, only uses 160 watts of power and is a most excellent pump. I can't say enough about lagunas if you want to go with a solid submersible pump. I now have an external pump, but I used to use lagunas and they were completely problem free for me for years. I ended up switching only because my back is getting stiff (I refuse to say "old") to be pulling pumps out of a body of water any longer. Lots of folks on this site swear by Laguna.

Edited by koikeepr, 08 September 2009 - 01:50 PM.

[jenn.]

I am certainly no expert but I have a 1,000+ gallon pond with a small filter and let me tell you, it is better to have "too much" filtration than not enough! A couple years ago when we set up the pond we bought a few goldfish and koi and now they look like jaws patrolling the water. Plus with that size pond you may end up with a bunch of baby fish in a few years so it is better to go with the largest reasonable filter you can build/afford. I have a Pondmaster submersible Mag pump and am pretty happy with it but not sure if they make that kind large enough to support your size pond. Remember the bigger the filter the less often you have to clean it!!!

[sevensandeights]

I didn't actually buy the pump yet so I am open to suggestions. I can use an external pump but will have to be creative about hiding it in the landscape.

I don't have anywhere to put a 55 gallon filter because the pond is right next to my house and that's the biggest reason I am avoiding it.

[y2kdejesus]

First of all, welcome to the forum. Alot of good people here and a wealth of knowledge when it comes to ponds. I am no expert my any means. jenn is right you can never have too much filtration. I have been looking at going with Pondmaster or Laguna pumps myself. I have read that when looking at cost of running a pump you look for the amps it will use not just the wattage. When looking for pumps also look at what kind of warranty they stand behind. Usually 3 year warranty is pretty good. Leeanne is also right for the size pond youre talking about at a minimum one 55 gal maybe even two 55's would be right on. You can also go with 100 gal rubbermaid skippy type filter which they have info on how to make them step by step here on this forum. Good luck and hope to see some pics soon.

[koikeepr]

sevensandeights said:

I didn't actually buy the pump yet so I am open to suggestions. I can use an external pump but will have to be creative about hiding it in the landscape.

I don't have anywhere to put a 55 gallon filter because the pond is right next to my house and that's the biggest reason I am avoiding it.

oh great! Glad to hear you are open to an external! First off, I'm trying to understand your situation. With an external pump, you do need it to be gravity fed...same thing with the 55 gal drum leanne mentions. I didn't have a spot either, so i had to dig a filter pit. You can look at my post somewhere on here for how i did it. If you are unable to dig, then you can do a pressure or bead filter. They don't require gravity. You can dig them in the ground to hide 'em or jsut stick 'em anywhere.(i have the laguna pressure filter in addition to a 55 gal drum). They are fantastic. If you don't have a place to hide it, you just dig a 24" hole somewhere near the pond and just drop it in. You can attach it to the laguna pump I metioned earlier--or you can use an external attached it too. I have a Sequence 750 4500 gph that i got on Webbs water gardens (use google to find 'em). Get the basket strainer! For about $100 less is the Evolution ES pump which is of comporable caliber. I feel that the sequence pump wattage is more accurate, so I went with that--but I was tempted by the evol, too.

External pumps are easier to take care of (no fishing it out of the water), and less in cost to run for a comparable sized submersible...BUT, it needs to be fed by gravity. External pumps work to PUSH water, not pull it. So, if your pump has to be above the water line, you might as well just stick with a submersible. In that case, I would go with the Laguna I mentioned...but it will be way more expensive than the an external. Simply put, submersibles use more power wattage than externals.

[poodles-ponds and gardens]

sevensandeights said:

I don't have anywhere to put a 55 gallon filter because the pond is right next to my house and that's the biggest reason I am avoiding it.

Could you post a pix of the area where you are going to build the pond? That may help forum members come up with some ideas to help you.
My pond is right up next to my house and I built a water fall that my filter hides behind. (see below for a under construction pix. You can see the top of the filter at this point) Even if you had to make your pond a foot or two shorter, if it made the difference between no filter or a insufficient filter and an effective one, it would be worth it.

Attached Thumbnails

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[DrCase]

Like every one else already said 2 -55 gal drums or 1-100 gal stock tank..
a dirty pond is not as much fun to show your friends
Clean water makes every one happy

[koikeepr]

do you have a deck or garage or shed nearby where you can hide a filter behind?

Again, a pressure filter can be tucked in a hole in the ground and covered with a few large rocks.

[sevensandeights]

I'll get some pictures up soon.

I think I can easily get one 55 gallon filter in and use it as the reservoir for my waterfalls. I'll have to rework some things a little bit but it shouldn't be a big deal.

After a very quick search, the cheapest place I could find the Laguna Max-Flo 4200 is $228 shipped to my door. It does seeem to be quite a bit more efficient than the Pondmaster's I was looking at.

I don't think an external pump will work easily for me unless I use the retro-fit bottom drain you mentioned earlier.

Lastly, I have one question regarding the filter. Where do you flush the solids out of the bottom of the tank? I thought I read one post that mentioned flushing it back into the pond - this didn't make any sense to me.

[sevensandeights]

Please Disregard this post - I am trying to increase my post count so I can link some pictures.

[sevensandeights]

Please also disregard this post - I am trying to increase my post count so I can link some pictures.

[sevensandeights]

Ok - I took some pics this afternoon. The pond is probably a few hundred gallons less than I originally calculated because it's not a true oval and the depth never really reaches a full 24 inches.



This is a pic of the spillway between the upper and lower ponds.



This is a pic of the waterfall area. The reservoir is made up of 8" cinder blocks. There are 6 blocks laid out in a circle and it is 3 courses high. I am thinking of putting a 55 gallon drum inside as my filter (I'll have to remove all the rocks I put in there and dig out he bottom a little!). There will most likely be 4 waterfalls going down and to the right of the reservoir with a mild curve. It roughly follows above where the pond liner is now (there is a bunch of excess liner that I have to cut off).

[poodles-ponds and gardens]

In regards to the back flushing, I put a kitchen sink drain in the bottom of my 26 gal. trash can. (I have a smaller pond)That is connected to an elbow and then a ball valve. The idea is to open the ball valve while the pump is running. This allows the sediment that has collected
in the bottom of the filter to (back) flush out. If you save the water that flushes out, it's great to water the garden plants.) Lots of fertilizer in there. Others have put their dump valves in the side of the filter near the bottom. You can check out Koiguy 1969"s step by step instructions of his filter in the DIY section and Dr. Dave has instructions on his website. (See his signature for a link). All that being said, your pond looks good. Good placement near the porch for everyone to enjoy! (Mine is next to my back porch too)

Edited by poodles,ponds and gardens, 10 September 2009 - 10:28 PM.
corrections