22 replies to this topic

[Buck]

I do know its importance on smaller sized tanks,ponds etc. without water flow but how large does a puddle need to be (water volume) before its a waste of time? Bio filtration seems a waste of time to me on a semi large pond with water circulation since bacteria exists on all surface areas in a pond. I will have a waterfall for turbulence pulling it from about 15 feet away from the waterfall itself and the pond will have a 4 foot depth for at least half of the pond. I need to do some measuring of the hole because Im not sure how many gallons my pond will be, but Im sure it will be in the 1500+ range minimum by quick estimation.
A 55 gallon drum filter just seems to be a small addition of media in a pond this size. Am I all wet here?

[DrCase]

Hay Buck
Small as it is the one thing that the 55 gal drum will do is ,,,When you drain it it will take the muck out off the water,,,and start collecting a new batch..
Your pond looks bigger than 1500 gals to me,,,this is just a guess but i would be thinking 3000 gal..

[koiguy1969]

biofiltering is never a waste of time...it performs the task that mother nature does.but in a controlled enviorment.. natural bodies of water have a constant input of water and a constant movement of water out. and a natural clay basin allows for some nutrient exchange,not to mention we,as ponders far exceed the natural parameters of fishload, thusly bio waste, if you had a constant source of incoming and out going water, filtration may not be neccessary. but thats usually not the case. we are recirculating the same water over and over with only partial water changes done. if you dont filter your fish numbers better be kept low.

[DrDave]

Buck
You would be amazed if you saw the gunk that comes out of my 2" dump valve in the bottom of my 55 gallon Doc Filter. So in addition to purifying the water, it removes a lot of solids that are in solution, primarily algae.

[koikeepr]

Bio filtration is really the most important form of filtration, period. Without it we could not sustain our ponds. I agree with all the other posters ahead of me here... When I turn the valve on my bottom drain the stuff that comes outta there always astounds me. Deep, dark clumpy gunk. Whenever I see it come out, I can't be more happier that I have one of these barrels because I know I wouldn't be able to collect it and dump it in such a perfect and easy manner otherwise. I've seen what my pond looked like without a barrel and with one, and I know the difference. I would never be without a barrel filter again.

Based on the photos of your dig, I would bet you that the pond is closer to twice the size in terms of gallons than you think. I have nearly 3000 gallons and your looks similar. You can go onto the web and figure out how to do calculate your gallonage with a pond water calculator. You don't have a rectangle, and there's a few sites that can help you calculate based on an uneven shape. Mine is a sort of a kidney shape.

[Buck]

I have had 5,10,15,30,50,56 and now a 75G aquarium in my life. I have grown over 200 different aquatic plants in all of them and I even inject CO2 into my aquarium for the plants so I do understand bio-filtration and how it works but I still cant see it being beneficial in a larger pond. As long as it isnt heavily fish stocked and you have good water flow I would think it would not be necessary.
When it comes to pond maintenance there are a lot of factors I would think.

What is your bio-load per gallon(fish)? How many plants you keep (and what kinds) to suck up excess nutrients from waste? How much Water Flow (gallons pumped per gallons in your pond)?
- In a small 4 or 500 gallon pond I could see it being beneficial even with good water flow but the surface area for bacteria on the stone in the pond, the liner and also the stone in the waterfall is vast and no matter how much media you could fit in a 55G barrel, I just dont see it being a big difference. You guys have seen the pictures of my project, do you think that a half dozen Koi (even fully matured) would create a bio-load that would exceed what the pond could naturally handle?

Just curious here, Does anyone out there not filter a pond my size or there abouts with success?
If I have to I will but do I need to go larger then say a 55G filter? If all it does is take a little muck out then I doubt its a project breaker. Im confused...

[Buck]

koikeepr said:

I've seen what my pond looked like without a barrel and with one, and I know the difference. I would never be without a barrel filter again.

Thats the best thing I have heard yet. I have seen your posts and loved the design of yours and the way you posted the photos was very good ! It made me want to build one just because! I have also seen though the amount of fish you guys keep in your ponds and they are beautiful but i will not be keeping that many. As a matter of fact my wife does not want ANY fish in there and would probably be much happier if i chlorinated it like a pool, but that is not going to happen. I am thinking that 6 will crawl out of the woods and find their way across my property and jump in without her knowing and then it will be too late...

Unless she goes fishin'...

[DrDave]

Buck
It doesn't get easier than this.
http://drdaveskoi.tr...bio_filter.html

[Buck]

Thankyou for the link. (love photos)

Let me get this right...The input from the pond pump just pours in the top of the barrel, the water rises past the media and then overflows into the waterfall back into the pond and then every once in a while you open the bottom valve to drain gunk that has collected?

[leeannecastro]

I didn't think I would need one. I have a 1800 gallon pond and when I started I had about 7 fish. It was great for about 3 weeks and then it turned into pea soup disaster. I built a 55 gal bio filter this spring and I will NEVER have another pond with out at least one. I might even build another one next spring!.
It took me less than 1 day (including drying time) and it is the most worthwhile thing I have ever done with my pond.
I'm a believer!!

[DrDave]

Buck said:

Thankyou for the link. (love photos)

Let me get this right...The input from the pond pump just pours in the top of the barrel, the water rises past the media and then overflows into the waterfall back into the pond and then every once in a while you open the bottom valve to drain gunk that has collected?

No, the pump sends it to the bottom to a tee that has a pair of 90's attached so it swirls in the sump. It then percolates to the top through the 7000 or so irrigation tubes. The water that comes out looks like bottled water and the stuff trapped in the sump is nasty black and dark green sludge that the dump valve dispatchesd when ever you decide to clean it. The nice part is it takes 45 seconds and your hands never get wet. How cool is that?

[koikeepr]

Buck, when I inherited my pond with the house I bought, the previous owner had put zero thought into filtration. There simply was none. There was nothing more than a few small 29 cent goldfish and a ton of plants. The water was absolutely pea green soup. He never fed the fish and just let them subsist with whatever little mosquitoes or whatever they could grab. No partial water changes, no nothing.

For a while, I just kept the pond in that manner (as I had plenty of things to fix inside the house), but after a month I just couldn't take it any more. I felt bad for the fish. LOL! You couldn't even see them unless they came to the very top.

So, I yanked all the plants out, which were mostly heavily overgrown rush and began to consider a filtration plan. I started with a small pond floor filter box, which was the dumbest thing I could have done. The thing clogged up constantly, so I had to yank it out nearly every day to clear. Next, still on a quest for a cheap fix, I bought one of those green tetra bio filters which was a complete waste as I couldn't even get the cover open when I needed to clean out the media.

Finally, I just said to myself, what the hell am I doing? Do I want a REAL pond to enjoy, or am I just trying to help these poor little goldfish get a bit more quality water?

Finally, I got myself the Laguna maxflow and a pressure filter with a UV light. Bingo! Everything started working right. The water cleared within days. I added koi a few months later and then I was totally sucked in. All was fine for a few years like that and then I really wanted to improve the quality of the filtration and pond mechanicals as much as I could without having to rip out the pond. So, I retrofit the whole thing to it's max point. I did everything I could short of pulling the liner out and starting all over again.

I added a retro-fit bottom drain--best thing I ever did. No more vacuuming and mucking for me! I got myself an external pump so that I didn't have to deal with sticking my hands in water to service my pump anymore. And then I left the pressure filter in place, but added the 55 gallon barrel and dolphin AV-50 air pump. This was the magic combination for me that gave me the absolute best water quality. I do all the proper water changes every two weeks and use salt when necessary, etc. My work now is the most minimal it has ever been.

I turn the waste spigot on my barrel open and all the detrius comes out and I add more water. It doesn't get easier than that. If I had to prove the quality of my water, I would have no trouble at all taking a sip.

Koi and goldfish are monster poopers, so I would not keep any of these type of fish if you were to go sans filtration. You'd be better off doing what your wife says. But most importantly, you have a captured body of water....it's not natural. And you need the water to move and get air and be filtered in order not to stagnate band subsequently build up ammonia/etc. that will kill it's inhabitants.

It's up to you, but 1,500+ gallons is an awful lot of water to deal with once it goes sour. I would just set up at least 1 55 gal drum (it's certainly better than none)--and keep your fish stock low (perhaps stick with goldfish--sarassas are inexpensive and look like kohaku koi). Or buy a pressure filter (if you don't want to DIY it). These can be buried up to their necks, so you barely see 'em if you're worried about something unsightly. But I would take a good measurement of your pond and do a water calculation. As I said, your pond looks to be greater than 1500 gals to me.

At the end of the day, you will do what you want since it's your pond. But I will tell you it's much easier to put a filtration plan in place upfront than have to retrofit everything later.

I look forward to see what you do either way.

[Buck]

Well after everything I have read here and elsewhere I would be ignorant NOT to go with the voices of experience. Especially those that have started without filtration of any kind and then added it to see a big difference. This pond will definitely be very lightly stocked (only for bug consumption) and I doubt it will have plants in it but instead only surrounding it through landscaping. All things of course are subject to change but I was thinking that a pond with this many gallons wouldnt need much more then what mother nature provides.

Wrong again Bucko !

[koikeepr]

If it were a real natural pond that is spring fed, I would say you're right. But an artificial pond we put in with a liner or concrete bottom is in no way natural. No different than it not being natural that a fish is kept in a fish tank inside your house.

Those of us with ponds are trying to mimic nature, but it's all an illusion. Behind the smoke and mirrors is filtration, oxygen injection, working to build bacteria colonies and on and on...

That said, welcome to pondkeeping! Glad you are deciding to put your filtration in on the front end while you're building. You will be happy you are doing it now and not after your pond is done--where it's more of a headache, harder to hide and ultimately gets more expensive. It's always best if you can do as much of it right up front rather than retrofit on the back end.

So, now that we know you're on board with filtration...what are your thoughts as to what you'll do/design for your pond?

[aviator79]

Buck said:

- In a small 4 or 500 gallon pond I could see it being beneficial even with good water flow but the surface area for bacteria on the stone in the pond, the liner and also the stone in the waterfall is vast and no matter how much media you could fit in a 55G barrel, I just dont see it being a big difference. You guys have seen the pictures of my project, do you think that a half dozen Koi (even fully matured) would create a bio-load that would exceed what the pond could naturally handle?

Stones in the pond? Not a good idea.