21 replies to this topic

[Buck]

...and where does everyone go to get it? I see some 60ml stuff out there. Is that overkill? I am thinking of ordering a piece of 60ml for the waterfall area since I will be using some very large stone pieces and I dont want to tear it.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

[D&RW]

When I did our first waterfall, I just used scraps of cut liner to place directly under sharp or heavy edges. I think Firestone is changing their production of EPDM to 40 mil from 45. I'm thinking that most people are using 40 or 45. So if you put a scrap under the areas of concern you've doubled your thickness.

[DrDave]

My last liner came from Home Depot and it was 55 mil.

[koiguy1969]

You guys used liners? Oh man!! I duct taped trash bags together!!!.........45 mil epdm

[DrDave]

Where did you find black duct tape? LOL

[Buck]

D&RW, I like the idea of scraps under the edges for extra protection. I looked at home depot yesterday and the only liner they said they carried was the 45ml. It seemed thin to me whuich is why I asked the question. Shipping seems to be a big drag on the online liners although it does not seem too out of whack with local prices.

Anyone use the straight EDPM roll roofing with success? It seems the same only cheaper but what is removed to make it fish safe? Nobody (companies online) seems to want to tell that, they just say "fish safe"...

[DrDave]

EPDM is the manufacturers (Firestone) trade name. It is the same no matter who you buy it from. I used a micrometer to measure the 55 mil I bought from Home Depot. I used the same instrument to measure the EPDM i bought online and it was 45 mil. Not all EPDM are the same thickness, but they are all the same composition.

[D&RW]

I have read that the roofing material contains additional chemicals for longevity and anti-mildew, fungus, etc. I'll have to see where I read that and post the link if I can find it.

[Buck]

I have read that too but the only ones that seemed to make that claim are the ones selling the "pond liner". The same thickness in each is more expensive when called pond liner because now it is a specialty product. I have looked everywhere for the composition of each and neither really tells you much.

[poodles-ponds and gardens]

When I was planning my pond, I read the website for the "skippy" filter. They install ponds and they use the EPDM roofing and say they have never had a problem with it.
www.skippysstuff.com

[DrDave]

If you know what an MSDS is and how to read it, this should clear up any concerns about EPDM.

Attached Files

•  RG-EPDM-Series_eng.pdf   41.44K   26 downloads

[Buck]

Yup, this clears up alot...LOL

First they say this about its hazardous composition...

10.3 Hazardous decomposition products:
- Prolonged storage: release of carcinogenic products

And then they say this about the carcinogenic products? hmmm...above they say they are present but then do not list them?

11.2 Chronic toxicity:
Carcinogenicity (TLV) : not listed
Carcinogenicity (MAC) : not listed
Carcinogenicity (VME) : not listed
Carcinogenicity (GWBB) : not listed

And then of course its ecological effect?

12.1 Ecotoxicity:
- No data available

Its amazing how much info they can give you without actually giving you any info ! The only thing I read in that label that they actually nailed down is a description of how it looks... LOL

Im going to check out a couple of the local builder supply houses around here and see how much I can save by using the roofing instead. From what I have seen online I could get a 60ml liner using the roll roofing for about the same cost of 45ml in the "real thing" pond liner. Im still a little skiddish of how thin that 45ml felt the other day.
On the down side though too is I noticed the difference in weight comparison between two of same size pieces and I really need to consider that as well. My pond is an odd shape and it could pose quite a challenge trying to wrestle something that is a few hundred pounds.

Thanks for the link poodles... Im going to read that now !

[DrDave]

Don't read too much into the carcinigen part. Unless you are going to burn it and inhale the fumes.

MSDS are for engineers and scientists that are able to read between the lines.

[stroppy]

45 ml epdm .... arrived today ...but i havent worked out how on earth im going to lift it or manage to get it in the pond !!! i never realised how heavy it was going to be :0(

[Buck]

DrDave said:

MSDS are for engineers and scientists that are able to read between the lines.

Yeh, sort of how like lawyers do too.

Thats kool stroppy, where did you order it from? One with any size to it must way a bunch. I would think that even unrolling it and moving would be a task due to friction with the ground! Good luck !