25 replies to this topic

[Sean0913]

Hello all,

I have, "inherited a pond" in a matter of speaking. I believe it to be 170 gallons, based upon seeing an identical one at Home Depot, by the tag on the display rack (but I don't know in fact if it is). I received a fixed liner pond, which seemed rather large in my opinion, and dug a deep hole, lined it with sand etc, and set the pond up. This pond was given to me by someone who wasnt using it any more. With it I received what I think is a Pondmaster Filter, because it looks just like what I have, and a pump which has a water spigot fountain attachment, and sprays an umbrella like pattern, which I find quite nice.

Here's my problem. I went to look at fish and saw small koi at the local Petsmart. I took the salespersons advise and bought some conditioner for the pond water and brought home 5 small 2-3 inch koi. They seemed to go fine into the pond having conditioned the water.

I have no water plants, no other filtration systems, but I fear Ive made some pretty big errors by getting the koi, after reading about ponds and filters and koi sizes etc.

What do I do now? Have I created a fatal error here? I dont want to kill my fish.

Please help. I also would like to know if one of the first things I should do is get that pond filter and buy pvc pipe and cut it up instead of that filter media that was in it, which I thoroughly washed before putting the filter into play. The koi have been there for 2 days and they mostly stay around the filter edge and underneath. The only other thing I have is a barley pad, with a fake Lillypad floating on top of it for aesthetics.

Advice, feedback would be nice. I confess I an not a DIY but Id do my best if I needed to do something. I looked at the 55 barrel bio filters DIY and aside from understanding what the parts looked like, it went over my head. Would a smaller scale thing be possible with a Paint Bucket? I thank you for your tolerance of a guy who is as wet behind the ears as you can get.

[koiguy1969]

your right some mistakes were made...but hopefully nothing you cant correct. O.k thats definately too many fish (koi) for that pond. but right now, and maybe the next year you'll be o.k. you gotta know that koi can hit 30" and more. but your ok for now. but you will want to get some filtration going... you could build a biofilter like our 55 gal designs and just drop it down to a 20 gal trash can.. or a rubbermade tote (storage bin) now you cant have too much filtration so build as big of one as you can...pvc.. scrubby pads(no soap) ..soda straws.. basically any thing plastic will work for media.. but you'll need a bigger pond to keep them all..in 2 years or less that pond will be too small for 2 of them

Edited by koiguy1969, 19 November 2009 - 08:28 PM.

[Sean0913]

For this filter do I need another pump other than the one I have? And having this pondmaster filter, should I ditch it or should I cut some pvc pipe and fill that as well?

I can take the fact that I'll have to upgrade the size of the pond, but if I have some time to work with, thats fine. Being as I am not a DIY'r, what would you suggest for the biofilter? I can get the tote probably with no problem. Is there a tutorial that a guy like me can follow so I don't mess it up?

Thank you for your response/and advice. My knowledge of building things is pretty limited, but Ill do my best, and I can post pictures of what I have if that helps.

[koiguy1969]

heres about the simplist basic bio filter design you can find: this will get you by till you can work on a pond.........
[ame][/ame]

you can use the blue 'cut to fit' furnace pads for the top pads then fill the rest with whatever you like..the top spray bar is just a pipe with holes drilled in the bottom half so the water sprays out over the media.
its not as good as our designs but it will suffice.

Edited by koiguy1969, 19 November 2009 - 08:50 PM.

[koikeepr]

Hi Sean! Welcome to ponding.

The good news is that you can return your koi to petsmart with the receipt within 14 days of purchase. Not sure you bought them in the last two weeks tho.

That pond is way too small for any koi, and it is meant for a few small comet goldfish only. I know the filter you are talking about, it sits on the bottom the pond and is essentially a thin box with a sponge in it and a little fountain on top. I am not going to be the only bearer of bad news, but it is junk. It's a pain to maintain and you have to drag it out of the pond.

Koiguy's suggestion is right on. If you can't hide his filter behind something, for a pond that small, you can also make a filter hidden in a flower pot. You can google "flower pot filter" and see many examples of how to build them. If you are not the DIY type, please do let us know and we'll suggest a store bought filter for you.

We can help you rectify some of your boo boos. Trust me when I say that we've all made 'em!

[Sean0913]

koikeepr said:

Hi Sean! Welcome to ponding.

The good news is that you can return your koi to petsmart with the receipt within 14 days of purchase. Not sure you bought them in the last two weeks tho.

That pond is way too small for any koi, and it is meant for a few small comet goldfish only. I know the filter you are talking about, it sits on the bottom the pond and is essentially a thin box with a sponge in it and a little fountain on top. I am not going to be the only bearer of bad news, but it is junk. It's a pain to maintain and you have to drag it out of the pond.

Koiguy's suggestion is right on. If you can't hide his filter behind something, for a pond that small, you can also make a filter hidden in a flower pot. You can google "flower pot filter" and see many examples of how to build them. If you are not the DIY type, please do let us know and we'll suggest a store bought filter for you.

We can help you rectify some of your boo boos. Trust me when I say that we've all made 'em!

Thank you koikeeper,

I will google flower pot filter, and see what I can learn. Can you explain to me why the pond filter I have is a bad one? Also do I need to buy another pump for my filter if I build one? I don't mind being a DIY type, I just might need more specific guidance than the average guy, when it comes to questions on how to put it all together.

Ive spent a lot of time on youtube looking at koi ponds and such. Do I have time to work with here with these koi before their environment size is a real detriment? I was told "Koi are hardy fish and they grow to the size of their surroundings" which is why I bought a few koi for this pond. But in finding this place, I see that I was wrong to get the koi.

[koikeepr]

As I said, that filter is just a pain to maintain. Anything you have to continually have to lug out of the water like that is just not an easy way to maintain a pond. You will find that it will clog easily, etc. It has a very small area for building a good bacteria colony, etc. It is just not ideal.

I can't tell you if your pump is suitable for koiguy's idea or the flower pot filter. If you tell us what pump you have, what the GPH is on it, etc, we'll be able to help you figure that out.

I can assure you that koi will outgrow the pond. Plus, you are talking about a fish that gets to 24+ inches, it's totally not right to stunt the fish. Like I've said before to others, it's like buying a dog crate for a poodle and housing a Great Dane in it.

A koi that is 3 inches this summer, will be 8-9 inches at least the following summer. These critters grow super fast. So, you're probably looking at giving 'em away/rehoming them next summer. Goldfish require lots less water space per fish than a koi. Koi are also monster poopers and will pollute a small pond very quickly and it can end up difficult to stabilize water parameters.

By the way, speaking of that, have you been doing water changes?

[Sean0913]

koikeepr said:

As I said, that filter is just a pain to maintain. Anything you have to continually have to lug out of the water like that is just not an easy way to maintain a pond. You will find that it will clog easily, etc. It has a very small area for building a good bacteria colony, etc. It is just not ideal.

I can't tell you if your pump is suitable for koiguy's idea or the flower pot filter. If you tell us what pump you have, what the GPH is on it, etc, we'll be able to help you figure that out.

I can assure you that koi will outgrow the pond. Plus, you are talking about a fish that gets to 24+ inches, it's totally not right to stunt the fish. Like I've said before to others, it's like buying a dog crate for a poodle and housing a Great Dane in it.

A koi that is 3 inches this summer, will be 8-9 inches at least the following summer. These critters grow super fast. So, you're probably looking at giving 'em away/rehoming them next summer. Goldfish require lots less water space per fish than a koi. Koi are also monster poopers and will pollute a small pond very quickly and it can end up difficult to stabilize water parameters.

By the way, speaking of that, have you been doing water changes?

Thank you for your answer to the filter question. I've been reading/studying about the need to pre-seed it with helpful bacteria to get the colony and pond functioning. If I can make a flowerpot filter, I will.

In the return to the pond, do I need to build a waterfall, or do I just run the hose to the pond?

As for water changes the pond is 4 days old, and I was under the understanding that you dont change more than 10% of the water at any time. Also that you should treat your pond with conditioner when you add water to it? Well as I speak, it's raining outside, and presumably filling the pond again.

Where can I find info about the pond pump and gph? Is it on the pump itself somewhere?

[koiguy1969]

dechlorinator (conditioner) is not needed at waterchanges unless you go bigger than 10% the farther the water falls before hitting the ponds water surface the better job of aeration is does.adding beneficial bacteria to your filter to kick start it and regular small doses for maintainence is a great idea, i would reccommend "Microbelfts PL gel filter innoculant" it will build a colony of decent size in days rather than weeks. then you can use any brand for maintainence dosing.. info on the pump should be right on the pump.

[koikeepr]

koiguy is right about the dechlor, and you should have some on hand just in case you need to do a larger than 10% water change, which is not uncommon.

You don't need a waterfall. You can just have water return with with a pipe, but as koiguy points out, there is benefit to a waterfall in terms of some water movement and air. If you do the flower pot filter, for example, you can have the water spill out of it from a hard pipe which would form a waterfall. Just stacking up a bunch of rocks could hide koiguy's filter and look like a waterfall as water pours out of the pipe from up higher so you get the waterfalls benefit. But, no, technically you don't need a waterfall. You could use a spitter at the edge of the pond. You'll see these little statues that look like a frog, a fish or a turtle where the water sprays out of it's mouth. A bamboo deer scarer can also be purchased cheaply and gives that very japanese feel, too. All these can replace a waterfall without much effort.

Just tell us what your pump brand and model is and we'll help you with the rest.

If you took some good photos of your pond and it's surrounding area, it would be very helpful to us for sure.

[koiguy1969]

myself, on the basenment pond i do a filter flush and refill every five days so about 150 gals or so every 2 weeks (15 days) this is on a 800 gal pond..the.outside pond is larger and i dont do timed water changes persay but i throw the hose in for 10 minutes every 3 or 4 days and about once a month pump out a couple hundred gallons to change. but the regular top offs do the job after a few minutes of running out the overflow i kill the water. and i rarely ever use any dechlorinator...but back to your filter..if you plan on building a bigger pond build a bigger filter it will keep your water heathier in the little pond and you wont have to build another one when you build he pond. remember theres only filters that are too small not to big.

Edited by koiguy1969, 20 November 2009 - 04:57 PM.

[Sean0913]

koiguy1969 said:

dechlorinator (conditioner) is not needed at waterchanges unless you go bigger than 10% the farther the water falls before hitting the ponds water surface the better job of aeration is does.adding beneficial bacteria to your filter to kick start it and regular small doses for maintainence is a great idea, i would reccommend "Microbelfts PL gel filter innoculant" it will build a colony of decent size in days rather than weeks. then you can use any brand for maintainence dosing.. info on the pump should be right on the pump.

From what I can tell its a Pondmaster Model 5 - 500 gph pump and its attached to a filter I believe the Pondmaster PM 1000 Filter.

[koikeepr]

good news is that pondmaster pumps are good ones. Long lasting, low power consumption and mag driven All good things. So, this pump is more than adequate to turn over your pond, and could certainly drive a bio filter like the one that koiguy pointed out or a flower pot one such as this one, or this one, or this one, to give you a few quick examples.

This video [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgZWOXOonZo"]here[/ame] is also a good example of how to make a small filter in a bucket.

Of course, the benefit with these filters is that they are OUT of the water, so there's no need to get wet while maintaining them.

I would also build a cage for your pump out of two colanders or two plastic mesh containers strapped together so it doesn't clog in your pond. Lots of examples of that on the web, too.

This will all be straightforward for you with parts from a home improvement store.

[koiguy1969]

you'll need a bigger output than what he used or you'll overflow go 2" and it will be fine and it could use a flush valve on the bottom too! but over all not bad.
OH heres part 2
[ame][/ame]
as you can see this is the same filter we all built in a smaller container.
i still would go ahead and build your big filter if your gonna build abigger pond in the near future.

Edited by koiguy1969, 20 November 2009 - 08:38 PM.

[Sean0913]

koiguy1969 said:

you'll need a bigger output than what he used or you'll overflow go 2" and it will be fine and it could use a flush valve on the bottom too! but over all not bad.
OH heres part 2

as you can see this is the same filter we all built in a smaller container.
i still would go ahead and build your big filter if your gonna build abigger pond in the near future.

A real mess now. I went outside to check on the fish, and saw a real problem.

The pond was almost empty, the liner had sucked up into itself, and it looked like the all day rain had collapsed the texas clay/mud that Id used, along with the sand, creating a sink hole, which dumped the bell fountain on its side so it emptied the pond.

The koi were on one side of the pond in a small remaining pocket of water, thankfully, but now I'm left with a real mess, a deformed pond and a sinkhole filled with Texas rainwater. Now I wish I had a pond liner....and not a rigid one. I'm in a quandary for sure.