2 ponds with 6' height diference

[Ronfire]

Planning on building 2 ponds with about 6' of height difference and connect the 2 with a waterfall and stream.
But here come the problems.
1- If I use an overflow to the lower pond how do I keep the fish in the upper pond, could use a screen and keep it clean with an overflow backup in case the screen gets clogged.
2- How to incorporate a bottom drain into the top pond. Could have a bottom drain come out at the top of the water flow for the lower pond so as to look like an overflow exit, will fish be drawn down a bottom drain?

Does pvc pipe crack when it gets frozen or is abs a better choice for the above drain system?

 

[Lisak1]

1. Think fence more than screen - something with wide enough openings for the debris to pass through but still keep the fish from going over. Otherwise you will be dealing with a clogged screen constantly and that will get frustrating. And maybe don't add the "fence" unless you find you really need it. We have a negative edge pond - everyone warned us that our fish would constantly go over the edge. Happens so rarely it's not even worth worrying about in our case. So maybe wait and see?

2. Are you sure you want or need a bottom drain? What kind of fish do you plan to keep? How many? How big of a pond? I don't have one, so no advice as to how they work - just wanted to throw out there that you don't HAVE to have one in a pond.

 

[Ronfire]

Not sure on the size yet but probably 8 x 10 and possibly 4' at the deepest corner. With the pond on a hillside it will be mostly above ground with lots of big rock added around it ( we grow them here ). Might either cement rocks together but most likely use cement block and steel with a liner or maybe icf forms if I go 4' deep. Not sure yet might have to see when I clear out all the rocks that are there now and see what I have to start with. The pumps and pipes can be under the deck with good access to one side. was thinking of a waterfall type filter and have a bottom flush drain in that. The pipes will all have to be able to be drained as we can get -30c in the winter. Most likely end up with feeder goldfish and restock each spring as I am away in the winter and can not monitor the pond.

 

[MitchM]

Instead of a bottom drain, you could use a submersible pump with a pre filter, then use black flex PVC back up to the waterfall. Run the flex PVC up through the landscaping to conceal it.
Flex PVC is indestructible.

 

[Cj Harvey]

How about double water falls. Have the lower pond pump water from a skimmer to the upper ponds waterfall. Then the upper pond pumps water to the lower ponds waterfall. The waterfall for the lower pond could be raised pretty high and be very close to the upper pond.

 

[Ronfire]

Cj Cross pumps make no sense when gravity will send water to the lower pond anyway.
Plan to pump from lower pond to upper with a waterfall filter . I don't get any surface debris to speak of and with the waterfalls do I need a skimmer? The upper pond would not need one as the outflow would be a skimmer anyway and would then churn the surface debris in, the lower pond being much smaller might be ok with just a bottom drain.

 

[Nyboy]

If your pond is deep enough where it will not freeze solid you might be surprise by live fish in spring

 

[Ronfire]

Might try to winter some goldfish with an air pump and a floating deicer or pond breather.

 

[MitchM]

Air pump, 60-70 watts
Floating deicer, 1000 - 1500 watts
Pond breather, 45 watts.

Just something to keep in mind.

 

[Cj Harvey]

Cj Cross pumps make no sense when gravity will send water to the lower pond anyway.
Plan to pump from lower pond to upper with a waterfall filter . I don't get any surface debris to speak of and with the waterfalls do I need a skimmer? The upper pond would not need one as the outflow would be a skimmer anyway and would then churn the surface debris in, the lower pond being much smaller might be ok with just a bottom drain.

Since your concern was all the fish ending up in the bottom pond having two pumps would solve that issue.
I don't get much surface debris either but my skimmer still catches fish debris as well as any uneaten food. I haven't used bottom drains since my pond is liner. Don't know much about them. But even cutting out the skimmers and just having two waterfalls would solve your fish transfer issue

 

[Ronfire]

Sure liking all the idea, makes me think well before building. These forums are great

 

[Cj Harvey]

I just joined this morning and have already solved several questions that have been bugging me for months! This is the first forum I've ever been in and loving it

 

[MitchM]

I think I would be a bit depressed if I came back from holidays and had to clear my pond from dead fish every spring...
See this thread on how goldfish can manage:
https://www.gardenpondforum.com/threads/goldfish-cold-water-survival-secret-ethanol.21970/
Goldfish are extremely hardy, and all that's needed is to keep the water healthy by providing sufficient gas exchange during periods of ice cover.
My pond breathers operate for 8 months of the year with no intervention.
The only problem I had with pond breathers is when a school of minnows clogged the intake during ice cover.
There's no reason why a goldfish population can't survive 6 months under ice, otherwise.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

the lower pond being much smaller might be ok with just a bottom drain.

Lower pond in this type of feature should be larger than the upper pond. In an instance of power failure a great amount of water could be lost.

 

[Ronfire]

You would only have the amount of overflow from the top pond, maybe 1/2 inch. If you have some overflow of the lower pond would not be a disaster, or make the lower pond to withstand a 2 " increase in water if it is 1/4 the surface size of the upper pond.