Above ground pool to pond conversion

joesandy1822

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Hello. I just posted an intro regarding my pool to pond conversion. For details, please read that post.

My first question...I am fortunate enough to live near the Skippy people, so I made the drive there last week and asked a million and one questions. I want to get your opinion on what I was told.

My "pond" will be almost 13,000 gallons. I want to start out by using a Skippy type filter (I will make my own). The Skippy people said I would be good with 2 150 gallon filters, or 1 300 gallon filter. I was concerned because according to my charts, that would not be nearly large enough for that volume of water. They say it will work fine. I do not plan on having Koi. Only lots and lots of plants, and goldfish/shubunkins for now until I learn some things. Then maybe Koi.

Do you all think that would be sufficient? I am not wanting to get into UV sterilizers or all the high tech stuff. I do have plenty of patience to allow the cycles to happen. And I want to keep it as simple as possible. I am not looking for sterile looking water. I just want it to be healthy for the fish, and not have a smelly swamp on my hands. Pristine is not my style. Having healthy, clear water is great, but algae on the walls, to me, is fine. I understand about the cycles, as even my tiny pond goes through those at the beginning of a new season. I wait it out, and all is good.

Before I move on to more questions, I guess I'd like to get your input as to whether you think the Skippy filter, either 1 300 gallon or 2 150 gallon ones would work. If possible, it would be nice to only buy one pump to feed the filter(s). I will purchase an additional pump for aeration only.

Thanks so much for any input. The chlorine is gone now, but the CYA (a stabilizer) is still present in the pool, so I won't add fish until next Spring. Winter freezing will take care of the CYA. For now, I thought I'd get started on the plants and the filter.

Sandy
 

DrDave

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While I don't agree with everything they say, I do agree that with a smal fish load, the size filters they are recommending are probably ok. Don't get confused with volume rather than amount of waste the filters have to process.
 

joesandy1822

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DrDave said:
While I don't agree with everything they say, I do agree that with a smal fish load, the size filters they are recommending are probably ok. Don't get confused with volume rather than amount of waste the filters have to process.

Thanks so much for the reply! I have learned a lot just by having my tiny water garden, regarding the biological balance, cycles, and things like that. But this amount of water seems to have me intimidated. Common sense dictates that a heavy fish load will require larger and more filtration than a lesser fish load. Thank you for reminding me of that. So exactly how do you know how large of a biofilter you need? How much does the volume of water come into play? Are there any charts that take into consideration different variables, or do you just have to experiment and learn as you go? I'm assuming if after 6 weeks or so your water still will not clear, then maybe you need a larger filter?

Also, is there any advantage to having 2 of the 150 gallon filters over 1 of the 300 gallon ones?

Would also appreciate knowing the things you do not agree with regarding Skippy, unless that is too controversial. I'm not trying to start trouble here, but I do want to learn. I already know that waste from fish never turns into sand. Not sure where that came from.

Thanks again.....I'm always learning, and I appreciate your taking time to help me.

Sandy
 

DrDave

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The size of filter varies with the offset of plants and feeding. Plants do a lot to clean the water and uneaten food contributes to the waste.

As for Skippy, they state that 55 gallon drums do not work, it is on their web site. Only a moron would make that claim. In fact, a round vessel provides a perfect vortex which contributes to the success of keeping the waste centered and in the bottom. It is basic physics and any engineer can clearly see it.

All I can say is my water is always perfect and I have one 55 gallon drum "Doc Filter".

Keep in mind, that your entire pond is a bio filter unless it is scrubbed daily. :confused: I think there are folks that actually do this, they have no business giving advice.:chair:

Anyone who would like to come test my water has my permission.

The bottom line is, maintain your pond and periodically test it to see how you are doing.
 

addy1

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My pond in arizona is about the size of your pool. I kept it clean with a 400 gallon bio filter/waterfall diy filter. I did not have koi, but did have some large gold fish.

I was able to get a 450 gallon square plastic container that I converted to a filter. It probably did not do as well as the diy filters made in here, I did not have a vortex going, just water being pushed up from the bottom through the medium. I did drain it off and on to back flush the filter.
 

joesandy1822

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I have decided to do a lot of reading, researching, and planning, and not start up my pool-to-pond conversion until the Spring. So I will be asking a lot of questions here. I've learned a lot already. Thank you.

So, a 300 gallon Rubbermaid stock tank is around $200. I could go that route for my biofilter, but a question comes to mind. If I can get free 55-gallon drums from a car wash and clean them out well, would it be practical or even possible to connect 6 of them together and just have the last one flowing back into the pond? Or would that put too much pressure on one pump? I'm trying to picture it in my head, how the plumbing would work, or if it is even feasible/possible. I'm always trying to save money if I can so I can put it towards the really necessary stuff, like a good pump. So FREE is always better than $200 in my book, especially if it doesn't matter. Maybe there might even be advantages to having 6 separate filter containers as opposed to one large one? Would the water be in contact with the bacteria longer this way?

Thanks again. I'll keep adding questions to this post. My next ones will probably be related to keeping my pool skimmer and bottom drain or getting rid of them.

Sandy
 

addy1

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I have seen pictures of 55 gallon drums in tandem. It might be easier to clean them, the first would probably collect the most junk. You could have different filter media, first one to collect the heavy big junk, next a different media to collect the smaller stuff, on and on.

Or the first two the same, the next two for a different media, the last for the small stuff.
That is probably what I would do.
 

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The problem with tying them all together is you have a flow limit through each drum
And you wont be able turn over your water
Feeding each one separate with a large common return would be a good option
If you have to work on one you still have 5 running
 

addy1

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Good point, you can see i don't have any tandem filters.
 

joesandy1822

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DrCase said:
The problem with tying them all together is you have a flow limit through each drum
And you wont be able turn over your water
Feeding each one separate with a large common return would be a good option
If you have to work on one you still have 5 running

Do you think it would be better just to go with the 300 gallon stock tank? I can't even picture how to plumb your description above. I'm pretty handy, but my mind is not understanding. Maybe $200 would be worth not messing with 6 separate vessels.

Sandy
 

addy1

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joesandy1822 said:
Do you think it would be better just to go with the 300 gallon stock tank? I can't even picture how to plumb your description above. I'm pretty handy, but my mind is not understanding. Maybe $200 would be worth not messing with 6 separate vessels.

Sandy

He is saying to take your input line of water and have it branch / T into each filter.

I do know someone that has them linked together i.e. one line going into the first filter, that filter feeding the second , that filter feeding the third. They raise koi. The piping is 4 inches.

I would vote spend the $200 and just have one vessel. It would take up less room too.
 

joesandy1822

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We have decided to plug the bottom drain of the pool, and not use it for the pond once converted since it would seem impossible to winterize it and protect from freezing. I have a question though regarding whether we should keep the skimmer going or plug that too.

How important to a pond is having a skimmer? I realize it will depend on lots of variables, such as how many trees in the area, etc. We do get a fair amount of leaf litter from neighbor's trees. It would be nice to keep the skimmer to suck up leaves before they sink to the bottom since I won't be able to afford a pond vac. If I keep the skimmer, I would probably run that separately from the biofilter. What I mean is I would use the existing pool pump and sand filter to run the skimmer. It would also come in handy to do vacuming of the bottom of the pond once or twice a season. The waste would just go into the skimmer basket, and I would then have to backwash the sand filter. I would purchase a separate pump that would feed my 300 gallon skippy filter. I'm doing a lot of thinking trying to decide whether to keep the skimmer, if there are any advantages, etc.

I have read that the existing sand filter would not be sufficient filtration, and would plug quickly, requiring frequent backwashing. Maybe I could just run it for several hours a day, or if it got windy and leaves were visibly blowing in (use "as needed"), and the separate pump/biofilter would run 24/7. Then again, running 2 pumps might be pretty pricey energy wise.

A pool skimmer is much smaller than a pond skimmer, correct? Anybody have a pool AND a pond? Do you think a pool skimmer would be helpful at all? Or just plug it up and forget it?

Another question that comes to mind is that the skimmer will try to suck in fish and all floating plants. How do you keep that from happening?

So many questions with this project, and not much info because of the nature of it being a pool. I suppose I will learn a lot just by making mistakes, but it would be nice to know if there are things I'm thinking of doing that are just plain "NO NOs" that you all might already know. Could save me a lot of frustration.

Thanks for any advice, as always!

Sandy
 

addy1

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I bought and put in a pool skimmer for our pond. Personally I would keep the skimmer. In the winter have a way to drain it so it won't freeze. (i am not putting mine into use because winter is sneaking up so it is staying dry for the winter, we are not up and running yet)

You will find there are some pond peeps that don't use skimmers, it is a personal preference. I have one in my arizona pond, it worked great keeping the leaves out. Didn't lose fish to it either, (goldfish)

The skimmer I bought has openings in the bottom that are screw in. To drain it I am thinking of putting a screw end on a piece of pvc, make that pvc pipe longer than the water level, screw it in. This will drain the pipes. To drain the skimmer, thinking of displacing the water with bubble wrap placed in heavy duty plastic bag. Just keep pushing in the bubble wrap until the water is displaced. You could also fill the bag with expanding foam, that you could cut out the next year, to put the skimmer back into use.

You might want to do what some others have done with pool sand filters, fill it with strapping, bio balls, tubing , whatever, get rid of the sand. Sand is not made for the junk from a pond. In arizona when we get a dust storm and just layer of that stuff gets into the pool the sand filter gets too plugged up, has to be back flushed more than once to clean the pool.

The ability to use it as a vacuum will be very helpful, it cleans wonderfully. LOL I forgot about that!, will now use mine as a vacuum. Just need to buy the "pool" stuff for the pond. Except mine will vacuum into the skimmer and inline leaf basket.

Hope this makes sense to you, brain not quite up and running early here...lol
 

DrCase

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joesandy1822 said:
Do you think it would be better just to go with the 300 gallon stock tank? I can't even picture how to plumb your description above. I'm pretty handy, but my mind is not understanding. Maybe $200 would be worth not messing with 6 separate vessels.

Sandy

Sorry i missed this last week
The 300 gal tank would make things a lot simpler for you
by the time you got the fittings to put all the drums into the system you could buy the tank
 

joesandy1822

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addy1 said:
You will find there are some pond peeps that don't use skimmers, it is a personal preference. I have one in my arizona pond, it worked great keeping the leaves out. Didn't lose fish to it either, (goldfish)

You might want to do what some others have done with pool sand filters, fill it with strapping, bio balls, tubing , whatever, get rid of the sand. Sand is not made for the junk from a pond. In arizona when we get a dust storm and just layer of that stuff gets into the pool the sand filter gets too plugged up, has to be back flushed more than once to clean the pool.

The ability to use it as a vacuum will be very helpful, it cleans wonderfully. LOL I forgot about that!, will now use mine as a vacuum. Just need to buy the "pool" stuff for the pond. Except mine will vacuum into the skimmer and inline leaf basket.

That is a good idea about filling the sand filter with bio media. I wouldn't have to backwash so frequently. One question comes to mind though. If I only use that part of my system (the skimmer/sand filter replaced with biomedia) a few hours a day at most to collect falling leaves or do vacuming once a season, the bacteria will probably not survive, correct? There would not be water flow continuously through it. The filter would be filled, but not moving unless that pool pump was running. So I probably could not count that as a biofilter, right?

If I use the skimmer to plug my pool vac hose into, mine too will suck all the garbage into the skimmer basket to be emptied. My only concern here is that if there are many leaves (maple) on the bottom, the vacume hose might become plugged almost instantly. I seem to remember that happening a lot before we ended up getting an automatic, robotic pool cleaner. Thought about even using that, but it climbs the walls too and would try to climb anything else in the pond (potted plants, etc.) as well as getting the cord tangled around everything. Darn! That would have been awesome! Plus it would clean the algae off the walls, which I actually want there to hide the pool blue liner. I guess I could always just use a leaf rake and do my best that way. No money for a pond vac right now.

Still, if I keep the skimmer, I am concerned with it sucking in floating plants and becoming blocked. If it will suck in leaves, which it does nicely, as well as dead birds, twigs, and other unnamed junk, I'm sure it will suck in water hyacinths, lettuce, frogbit, fairy moss, and maybe fish. Not sure how to get around that one. Winterizing is no problem. I just unhook everything and bring it in. I do it every winter anyway. The valve gets a rubber plug, and I'm good to go.

Thanks for the input. Gives me more to think about. Right now I feel my poor head has enough to process.......but this is the way to learn.

Sandy
 

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