Aeration for winter question

[Meyer Jordan]

But I now will believe my original thoughts and others opinions that in reduced temps of 40F there is just not enough good bacteria active to do anything.

If this were true then, considering that most garden ponds are overstocked, these ponds would experience dangerous Ammonia levels during colder water temps. This, apparently, is not the case or people would be losing most of their fish every Winter.
When you brought your fish indoors you have apparently reduced the total SSA to fish load ratio thus severely limiting the colonization of Nitrifying bacteria.

 

[waynefrcan]

When I had wintered them outside I had high ammonia levels up to 2ppm and that was not overstocked situation in a 6500 gal pond.

I will have to disagree with you on this and call your theory inaccurate. There is just not enough bacteria activity in cold water to properly cycle the water.

 

[sissy]

ammonia can be controlled in many ways .No overfeeding or overstocking and zeolite

 

[Meyer Jordan]

When I had wintered them outside I had high ammonia levels up to 2ppm and that was not overstocked situation in a 6500 gal pond.

I will have to disagree with you on this and call your theory inaccurate. There is just not enough bacteria activity in cold water to properly cycle the water.

No theory. I have previously posted links to scientific documentation.

 

[MitchM]

I've never measured ammonia levels during the winter.
I'll do that this year.

 

[waynefrcan]

No theory. I have previously posted links to scientific documentation.

The pond keepers[ real world] does not match all scientific lab settings.

For example: Hot water freezes faster then cold water.

Lab tested - yes.

Real world - no.

 

[waynefrcan]

Your concern is understandable.
When a certain belief has been handed down and repeated for many years, the initial tendency is to accept this belief as fact. After all, can that many people, some of whom are considered experts, be wrong? The Earth is really flat, isn't it?
Sadly, the dissemination of factual data in the Pond world has not kept up with scientific research. In some cases, those in the Pond world are 10 to 20 years behind the scientific community, still embracing ideas that have long been proven false.
Much of what is currently held as 'the facts' by the Pond community concerning the Nitrogen cycle has been altered by scientific research on this subject. The effects of low temperatures on nitrification rates is only one of these areas.
This one article (http://www.lagoonsonline.com/ripple3.htm) completely dispels any doubt that nitrification occurs at low temperatures.

What is this study in that link? Lagoons with waste water influent from the discharge pipes? Not even close to any pond study with fish.

 

[Smaug]

I kept a hole open last year with nothing but a cheap air pump and a laguna floating heater when it really got bad..

 

[Meyer Jordan]

What is this study in that link? Lagoons with waste water influent from the discharge pipes? Not even close to any pond study with fish.

For the subject matter it IS close. It deals with the exact same Nitrifying bacteria as is present in ponds. (Fish don't get their own special bacteria, it is one size fits all). It reveals without doubt that Ammonia oxidizing bacteria function, quite well it seems, at very low temperatures. Lagoon or bucket, the same natural laws apply.

 

[waynefrcan]

Yes and it shows that nitrifying bacteria are dormant or almost at low temps. Unless you max out the test areas with bio media which no one in the pond world does, it won't support a bio balance. And whats in this influent? That study does not replicate backyard pond water conditions with fish at 40F.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Yes and it shows that nitrifying bacteria are dormant or almost at low temps, unless you max out the test areas with bio media which no one in the pond world does. And whats in this influent? That study does not replicate backyard pond water conditions with fish.

This report show that with the proper SSA (which I have mentioned at least twice before), Nitrifying bacteria have a high enough level of function to maintain low Ammonia levels. I would think that anyone with a pond containing fish would seek to have the maximum amount of potential biofiltration as possible, not just enough to get by during the warmer months.
That is effluent, not influent. In this case the effluent was treated sewage water discharged form a Waste Water Treatment plant.
You are right, this study does not replicate "backyard pond water conditions with fish". Instead it shows how even at very low temperatures, water that is much more polluted than pond water will ever be, can have Ammonia levels drastically reduced, meaning that achieving the same results in these "backyard ponds" would be a much simpler process.
How do so many people in higher Latitudes (there are quite a few on this forum) manage to over-winter their fish outdoors in the pond with no mortalities come Spring unless Ammonia and Nitrite reduction is on-going.

 

[waynefrcan]

adjective
adjective: influent

1. 1. 1.
   1. flowing in.
      "the influent lines were relocated while waste water was still flowing"
2. noun

noun: influent; plural noun: influents
1.
a stream, especially a tributary, that flows into another stream or lake.

 

[waynefrcan]

[QUOTE="Meyer Jordan, post: 293352, member: 7131
How do so many people in higher Latitudes (there are quite a few on this forum) manage to over-winter their fish outdoors in the pond with no mortalities come Spring unless Ammonia and Nitrite reduction is on-going.[/QUOTE]

Simple they have ponds that carry a higher load as mine did. Doesn't mean much ammonia reduction was going on.

So now apply that to my garage setup with low temps and there simply is not enough activity to reduce ammonia to any safe level. In room temps this fish load will cycle no problem. And I'm not going to max out every square inch of water with bio media as that study did.

So the answer is no, in normal setting with normal amount of biomedia and filtration ammonia levels will be high in 40F water. Unless you put in a few minnows you might make it.

 

[waynefrcan]

We might have to just disagree on this one, I'm not convinced.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

We aren't disagreeing.
You are disagreeing with science-based fact, not me. I am only the messenger.