Algae progress - lots of pictures

[myswtsins]

Warning I post tons of details and pictures!

Pond is about 4 years old now and I have had hair algae galore 365 days a year since setup basically. Over the years I've tried not feeding the fish at all, feeding them a lot, keeping it really clean, leaving it really dirty, adding shade etc. All the standard first steps of controlling light and nutrients with absolutely no success. So I'm trying new stuff and thought I'd document the process.

Overview of the 30ft stream, ~12x8x3ft pond, negative edge skimmer (not seen is the DIY skimmer box that falls into a 9x7x4ft pit that houses the pumps and holds extra water and 10x3x1.5ft bog) Total system is about 5k when full. Includes about 30 varieties of plants in gravel only except lilies which are in Safe T Sorb clay. Houses 20+ goldfish ranging from 2.5" to 10". No bottom drain, just skimmer box, waterfall box and bog for filtration.

Parameters - I test inconsistently at this point but often enough
pH - 8.2 (always, except like 2 weeks ago we got a massive amount of rain and pH went up to 8.7, did some water changes)
KH - ~6 (tap is 10 so rain has affected it over the years)
GH - ~6 (tap is 10 so rain has affected it over the years)
TDS - 105ppm (tap is 130)
Temp this week has been between 68 and 72
Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, Phosphates, Iron, Copper - 0 (always as well)

Battle plan!
Do a manual removal (which I do several times a season). Drain the stream out and spray hydrogen peroxide. Wait a day or two then clean off the dying algae. Had to do that twice in the stream so that took a bit. Then drain the main pond down to below the rock level and spray those rocks with peroxide. After most of the algae is gone (and pH back to normal after all the water changes) dose Microbe-lift barley extract with peat. Hope that works! If not come with a next step.

Starting point 6/2
End stream

Waterfall entering pond

Older pic 5/3 but all I had before of upper stream, I cleaned it in between but it looked just like this on 6/2 also

6/7
Lower stream after manual removal and peroxide application

Lower stream after post peroxide cleaning

Upper stream after post peroxide cleaning

6/8
Very next day, kinda hard to see, should have gotten close-ups but the algae was growing back already

6/15
1 week after adding barley(and doing everything else), algae is far less than a typical week of re-growth, more of a red brown than the usual brown/dirty algae and it breaks off very easily.

After cleaning with a hose only no scrubbing

And that's where I am currently. On Sunday I add a 2nd dose of barley (initial is 10oz, next 3 weeks is 2oz and then a monthly 3oz, went with lower end of 3-4K dosage BTW). No change in the pH yet. Not expecting one really but figured I'd get the peat and give it a try since I think my plants and fish could benefit from a decrease in pH. So far I am hopeful...

 

[Lisak1]

You may find with your stream set up that you always have some string algae - it seems to love shallow running water. You may want to consider trying sodium percarbonate instead of H2O2. I find it works longer and is easier to use than hydrogen peroxide.

 

[GBBUDD]

Ok lets pull this apart !
What type of bog did you build is it 2" pipe with drilled holes or cut slots?
What's the water flow into the bog
What's your over all water flow into the bog?
Pump size ?
Estimated over all size of the pond
How deep is that layer of rock at the bottom of the stream?
Is there any way that run off from a fertilized lawn is making it's way into your pond.?

 

[myswtsins]

You may find with your stream set up that you always have some string algae - it seems to love shallow running water. You may want to consider trying sodium percarbonate instead of H2O2. I find it works longer and is easier to use than hydrogen peroxide.

Hm never heard of using sodium percarbonate, will have to look into that. Thanks. Sounds like it might increase my hardness/alkalinity/ph though?

Ok lets pull this apart !
What type of bog did you build is it 2" pipe with drilled holes or cut slots?
What's the water flow into the bog
What's your over all water flow into the bog?
Pump size ?
Estimated over all size of the pond
How deep is that layer of rock at the bottom of the stream?
Is there any way that run off from a fertilized lawn is making it's way into your pond.?

Thank you for all your thoughts!
Bog is a solid container that is 18" deep with a "shelf" made out of lattice, screening and crates at 12" keeping the bottom completely open water, free flowing. Water comes in the far bottom and overflow on the opposite end. I installed a soaker hose zig zagging around the bottom that I blow air into the loosen gunk and pump it out to clean it, only did it a couple times. (I can dig out pictured if needed, it is a unique setup, hard to explain) Bog has a 1000gph pump but is 800 maybe after head loss. Waterfall has a 5100gph pump, I forget after head loss but around 4k. Overall size of pond is about 5k gallons when full and at least 3500 when at minimum. Layer or rocks in the bottom of the stream is a single layer, just enough to cover liner. I do clean out the stream at least once a year too, except last year when I was told I keep my pond too clean and that's why I had algae (dirty stream had the same results, algae!). No way for run-off. Entire area is raised from the rest of the yard and all edges are slightly sloped away from pond.
Picture from last year to show how the area is raised. That's the bog to left with ribbon grass and horsetail.

 

[addy1]

Beautiful set up!

 

[MitchM]

I am assuming the following:
-No regular water changes
-No feeding
-Once you kill the string algae, you don't remove the dead matter
-You haven't tested your source water for phosphate when you replace the water after you drain the pond
Correct any of those assumptions.

I would look for some bog plants that do well in higher PH environments, manually remove the dead algae once you kill it and add some higher PH tolerate plants. Otherwise the excess nutrients are just cycling over and over again in your pond.
Even though you're testing 0 for phosphate, it's tied up in the algae. Look for some flowering plants. Phosphate encourage root growth and flowering.
The humic substances in the barley extract are mostly effective on planktonic algae and adding any more is really just adding more organic matter to the pond, I would stop adding anything for the time being.

Very nice pond setup.

 

[Tula]

Beautiful ! Love the idea of blowing out a soaker hose....interesting.

 

[Lisak1]

OK - just re-read your description of your bog set up. Does all the pond water go through the bog? Or just the 800 GPH from the small pump?

Edit to add: I remember now when you were building your pond - it turned out so awesome!

 

[Lisak1]

Oh, and yes - sodium percarbonate does break down into hydrogen peroxide and soda ash when it gets wet, so it will increase alkalinity and raise pH. The question is how much and for how long.

I found an online calculator once (can't find it right now - I think it was for swimming pools) where I calculated a pound and a half of sodium carbonate (soda ash) would increase pH by 1 point in a 4000 gallon pond. I haven't been able to find any information on the volume of soda ash in sodium percarbonate, but let's assume it's 100% soda ash. Since you use it by the cupful, not the pound, you may not see it raise your pH at all. You need to just sprinkle it lightly on damp rocks or algae - shut down the waterfall/stream, sprinkle it on, and let it sit for 20-25 minutes. Hydrogen peroxide works, don't get me wrong - I just find this easier to use and more long lasting.

 

[qclabrat]

Beautiful pond and you and others here are much more experienced than me. I'm also having string algae problems. It looked like it was going away then it looks bad again. I've only been doing manual removals. Frankly mine aren't that bad, if it wasn't for challenged black Moor who seems to often get caught up in it I wouldn't care so much.

My only question is the surface area of you bog verse your pond. Mine is 1/3 which is recommended by many. I'm also adding a second for the waterfall supply and that combined would be about 2/5 of the ponds surface area. Another thing I have not done is to feed my bog plants. I'll be ordering them this weekend. They are growing, and even with the fish addition this year to a new pond last year it may not be enough nutrients for the plants.

 

[Mucky_Waters]

pH - 8.2 (always, except like 2 weeks ago we got a massive amount of rain and pH went up to 8.7, did some water changes)

That is odd since rainwater is always acidic, logically the rain should have lowered your PH.

I get a fair amount of filament algae in my pond as well, mostly growing on the rocks and plant on the side of the pond. When it gets too bad I spay it with the hose to loosen it up and get in the pond and flip the rocks over, without sunlight the algae under the rocks die back. Of course, fresh algae eventually grows on the top side again but it does help keep it under control. It's an ongoing chore like caring for a lawn. My bottom drain and settling tank mechanically capture much of the dead algae and I'm able to remove it from the water system but stupidly I keep feeding my fish and pond critters which in turn continue to add fresh nutrients to the pond water, so it's an ongoing battle. My last pond had a waterfall that faced directly into the sun all day long and it got a lot of algae growth like in your 2nd and 3rd pictures, the waterfall in my current pond is in the shade most of the time and it doesn't get nearly as bad.
If you ever find a non-chemical way to substantially reduce your algae growth let me know.

 

[myswtsins]

I am assuming the following:
-No regular water changes
-No feeding
-Once you kill the string algae, you don't remove the dead matter
-You haven't tested your source water for phosphate when you replace the water after you drain the pond
Correct any of those assumptions.

I would look for some bog plants that do well in higher PH environments, manually remove the dead algae once you kill it and add some higher PH tolerate plants. Otherwise the excess nutrients are just cycling over and over again in your pond.
Even though you're testing 0 for phosphate, it's tied up in the algae. Look for some flowering plants. Phosphate encourage root growth and flowering.
The humic substances in the barley extract are mostly effective on planktonic algae and adding any more is really just adding more organic matter to the pond, I would stop adding anything for the time being.

Very nice pond setup.

Thank you but all assumptions are incorrect I have an auto fill and overflow system that does water changes from time to time (Ok, not exactly regular but everything else is 100% opposite lol). Currently I am feeding heavily (as not feeding at all for an entire season has no effect on the algae and we enjoy feeding and it doesn't affect my test results). When I kill the algae I ALWAYS remove it the best I can with nets and filter floss. I feel like my whole life the past 2 weeks has been about cleaning filter pads and scooping. My source water has 0 Phos as well. I keep aquariums as well and have a unique water situation so I am very in tune with my source water lol.

I have almost 30 varieties of plants currently, some doing better than others of course and 90% of them are flowering plants.

I just started using the barley because nothing else is working. If I stop adding it what would be your suggestion? Since all assumptions were not accurate, if assumptions were accurate I clearly see what your suggestion would be.

OK - just re-read your description of your bog set up. Does all the pond water go through the bog? Or just the 800 GPH from the small pump?

Edit to add: I remember now when you were building your pond - it turned out so awesome!

Thank you! Just the 800gph. Research said that too fast of flow was not beneficial for the plants and I couldn't see putting 3500gph through it.

Oh, and yes - sodium percarbonate does break down into hydrogen peroxide and soda ash when it gets wet, so it will increase alkalinity and raise pH. The question is how much and for how long.

I found an online calculator once (can't find it right now - I think it was for swimming pools) where I calculated a pound and a half of sodium carbonate (soda ash) would increase pH by 1 point in a 4000 gallon pond. I haven't been able to find any information on the volume of soda ash in sodium percarbonate, but let's assume it's 100% soda ash. Since you use it by the cupful, not the pound, you may not see it raise your pH at all. You need to just sprinkle it lightly on damp rocks or algae - shut down the waterfall/stream, sprinkle it on, and let it sit for 20-25 minutes. Hydrogen peroxide works, don't get me wrong - I just find this easier to use and more long lasting.

I just used peroxide in the pond for the first time actually, used it several times in my aquariums before though. I used a mister to apply and it was super easy. I think sprinkling might be more difficult. If peroxide doesn't work well enough I will certainly look further into sodium percarbonate. Thank you very much for the info!

Beautiful pond and you and others here are much more experienced than me. I'm also having string algae problems. It looked like it was going away then it looks bad again. I've only been doing manual removals. Frankly mine aren't that bad, if it wasn't for challenged black Moor who seems to often get caught up in it I wouldn't care so much.

My only question is the surface area of you bog verse your pond. Mine is 1/3 which is recommended by many. I'm also adding a second for the waterfall supply and that combined would be about 2/5 of the ponds surface area. Another thing I have not done is to feed my bog plants. I'll be ordering them this weekend. They are growing, and even with the fish addition this year to a new pond last year it may not be enough nutrients for the plants.

Thank you and welcome to the world of ponding! and algae lol. Bog surface area is 1/3 of pond area plus I have 10 planting areas.

That is odd since rainwater is always acidic, logically the rain should have lowered your PH.

I get a fair amount of filament algae in my pond as well, mostly growing on the rocks and plant on the side of the pond. When it gets too bad I spay it with the hose to loosen it up and get in the pond and flip the rocks over, without sunlight the algae under the rocks die back. Of course, fresh algae eventually grows on the top side again but it does help keep it under control. It's an ongoing chore like caring for a lawn. My bottom drain and settling tank mechanically capture much of the dead algae and I'm able to remove it from the water system but stupidly I keep feeding my fish and pond critters which in turn continue to add fresh nutrients to the pond water, so it's an ongoing battle. My last pond had a waterfall that faced directly into the sun all day long and it got a lot of algae growth like in your 2nd and 3rd pictures, the waterfall in my current pond is in the shade most of the time and it doesn't get nearly as bad.
If you ever find a non-chemical way to substantially reduce your algae growth let me know.

I know, right!? (acidic rain) I don't understand it at all but it is par for the course in my aqua world (my water history is so weird).

I am completely fine with some algae maintenance, it is a part of the deal but every couple of weeks I'd have to do hours of backbreaking removal (if I were to keep on top of it which I don't always do, I've tried the "leave it alone and it will run its course" method too).

I do very much enjoy feeding my fish and I will deal with whatever that comes with. My main waterfall is in the shade mostly (3hrs or less) and the rest of the stream gets 5 hrs or less. Main pond gets 6-6.5 and bog gets 9 hrs. I set it up this way on purpose. I thought this way would produce the least amount of algae as the bog works overtime but umm...yeah.

By non chemical I assume you are considering the barley chemical? I don't like adding anything to my ponds or aquariums but this is a naturally occuring chemical reaction so it's the first step into the "chemical" world and I'm not thrilled about it. But my big solution is a shade pond! lol Never had algae in my shaded QT pond.

Thank you everyone for you suggestions and comments!

 

[MitchM]

Thank you but all assumptions are incorrect ... Currently I am feeding heavily (as not feeding at all for an entire season has no effect on the algae and we enjoy feeding and it doesn't affect my test results). When I kill the algae I ALWAYS remove it the best I can with nets and filter floss. I feel like my whole life the past 2 weeks has been about cleaning filter pads and scooping. My source water has 0 Phos as well. I keep aquariums as well and have a unique water situation so I am very in tune with my source water lol.

I have almost 30 varieties of plants currently, some doing better than others of course and 90% of them are flowering plants.

I just started using the barley because nothing else is working. If I stop adding it what would be your suggestion? Since all assumptions were not accurate, if assumptions were accurate I clearly see what your suggestion would be.


...

Okay.
I think we found the source of your excess nutrients. Heavy feeding.
Stop feeding. The fish have plenty to eat in an outdoor pond between algae/periphyton and bugs that naturally visit and breed in the pond. Commercial fish food has an incredible amount of phosphate in it.
One season of non feeding may not be sufficient to make a difference because of the detritus that is trapped in the gravel.
I would also stop the water changes. There's no benefit to it and the pond will be constantly rebalancing every time a water change is done.
You basically need to starve your pond of any outside additions and keep removing algae to further track down what is feeding the algae. Your fish will be fine and actually help with algae removal.
Glad to hear you have no phosphate in your source water. Some municipalities use phosphate in their water to prevent corrosion.

As far as a non-chemical way to reduce hair algae, try adding in some plain koi clay every once and a while. Clay will absorb phosphate and not add any nutrients.

(edit - if you really enjoy feeding your fish and don't mind removing some algae because of it, switch to fruits and vegetables only)
.

 

[Lisak1]

I also think you're not getting enough of your water through your bog - you're filtering less than 20% of your water per hour. We push maybe6 or 7000 GPH through our bog with no issue - and mine is smaller than yours, I think. (6x4 - pond is 17x13). @MitchM - any opinion on the low filtration rate having an affect on the algae growth?

 

[MitchM]

I also think you're not getting enough of your water through your bog - you're filtering less than 20% of your water per hour. We push maybe6 or 7000 GPH through our bog with no issue - and mine is smaller than yours, I think. (6x4 - pond is 17x13). @MitchM - any opinion on the low filtration rate having an affect on the algae growth?

I wasn't following that part of it, but that is certainly a concern. If the nutrient laden water isn't reaching the plants, then the algae will step up and benefit from it!