also over wintering in garage advice needed

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I was going to ask some questions on @Nanner thread, but decided to create my own to minimize confusion. Great advice there btw. I'm completely new to this so apologies for any silly questions. For example, I even had to look up the term "aerator".

I adopted 10 fish yesterday from a pond which had fish outside all year round. The fish are from a 6a climate and I'm slightly cooler at 6b. Since I don't have a pond yet, I decided to overwinter them in the attached a garage in two 50 gallon plastic whiskey type barrels, I had them already and use them for container fountains. Now I'm thinking that's too small and I should get a 100 gallon tub for the larger fish. I don't even know all the fish varieties so I'll try to describe each a little.

The two I can identify for sure are a black molly and an oranda. The molly is about 4", body measurement only. And the oranda 2.5. There's also 3 fancy goldfish of some type, one gold, another red/white and the other calico. They range from 2-3 inches. Next is where I'm fuzziest. They are either big comets, koi or something else. I'll include some good photos once they have some time to acclimate and I know how to photograph them. The biggest one is about 9" and is all white, wide girth and short tail. Two are similar but a different color and only 6-7". The last two are narrower with very only tails. One is about 7" and the other 5".

I have them all squeezed into one barrel which contains 75% of the native pond water but plan to move the larger ones out in a few days. Looking at other setups, I think that I will need at least a 100 gallon tank for the bigger fish. I'll probably run to the store and get one of those really big Rubbermaid tubs and use that instead of the other whiskey barrel.

I'm planning to keep the water between 35-40F, which is the temp of the pond when i pulled them out yesterday. I'd like to use the hibernation technique with only air and no filter if possible since the water temps will be low. Do i need to have filter if the fish have not eaten for over 2 weeks? I don't much about bacteria needed, so help here would be greatly appreciated.

I'm going to get supplies tomorrow, planning to get a larger tub, and ammonia/nitrate/nitrite test kit. I have some assorted meds and conditioners. But what are essentials i should have? pH in the pond was a little high at 6.5 and my barrels prior to introducing the fish was 6.8. After doing an ammonia test should i try to raise it to the optimum 7.5?

Very crowded space for now
WP_20161209_20_41_39_Pro.jpg
 

sissy

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Get crushed oyster shells to stabilize ph at tractor supply or farm store .I know petco sells a nice 4 port aerator under 30 dollars .I still have mine and gave it to my neighbor and it has to be 8 years old .Get a top for your tubs and that can be plain old window screening and clamps to clamp it on
 

Ruben Miranda

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Hello
Yes get bigger tubs , right now They look to be big ice cubes.
You said you used the whiskey barrows for fountains if you still have the.pumps put those in for a little circulation.
As mention get some screen to cover them.
They look to.be in good health and Beautilful.

I know you are not going to feed but would still get a test kit
For ammonia and nitrites for sure clorrine.

Nice job getting.them home safe

Ruben
 

sissy

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Since you have a small aerator you could use small pumps in a small planter with some lava rock around it or if the pumps have foam filters you can clean them every day.Agree you may be on city water and make sure you don't adjust the water temps to much if you add water
 
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In a few days ammonia levels are going to be rising and start causing harm to the fish.
You need a bigger tub, a pressure filter with bioballs or some other media, some ammonia detoxifier such as Prime or some zeolite or zeocarb that will sit in a bag in the filter or water column.
You will also need to test the ammonia and PH daily. Get a KH water test kit as well.
If you have a reputable pond or aquarium store, pick up some live starter bacteria. Make sure the starter bacteria package has an expiry date on it.

Until a biofilm is established in the tub the fish are kept in, the fish will slowly poison to death. Biofilm processes the ammonia from the fish and usually take a few weeks to establish a sufficient population.
Don't add anything else before checking with us here first.

.
 
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In a few days ammonia levels are going to be rising and start causing harm to the fish.
You need a bigger tub, a pressure filter with bioballs or some other media, some ammonia detoxifier such as Prime or some zeolite or zeocarb that will sit in a bag in the filter or water column.
You will also need to test the ammonia and PH daily. Get a KH water test kit as well.
If you have a reputable pond or aquarium store, pick up some live starter bacteria. Make sure the starter bacteria package has an expiry date on it.

Until a biofilm is established in the tub the fish are kept in, the fish will slowly poison to death. Biofilm processes the ammonia from the fish and usually take a few weeks to establish a sufficient population.
Don't add anything else before checking with us here first.

.
so fish will continue to excrete even when dormant and not eating? is so, much much in comparison to when eating?
 
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Yes, at a much slower rate, but they will still shed mucous, respire and produce excrement. That organic matter will still break down.
At the lower temperatures all biological activity will be slowed down but that also means that it will take longer for a proper biofilm to develop.
You also don't know how well fed the fish were before you picked them up.
Ammonia poisoning is not reversible, so I would rather see you have the proper filtration in place for when the water starts to warm up.
Establishing a biofilm while fish are present is a dangerous balancing act - the bacteria need ammonia in order to establish their population, fish gills get burned in the presence of ammonia.
 

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so fish will continue to excrete even when dormant and not eating? is so, much much in comparison to when eating?

The bulk of the Ammonia created by fish comes as the byproduct of respiration. Fish will continue to breath as long as they are alive and excrete Ammonia whether they eat of not.
 
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I think at least one of your fish is a koi. Even with the larger tank, it'll be crowded environment for koi. You'll really have to stay on top of your water quality.
 
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thanks all for the timely responses

so for garage over wintering its different from the pond where you limit circulation of the water so the denser, warmer water remains on the bottom. That makes sense since there is no bacteria yet established. Should I use one of the bacteria additives or is it better to put the old media from the filters from the pond into the tubs? if the later, is filtration still needed.

I assume then you will have to monitor water temps closer, what's the coldest water temp before needing to add heat?

lastly, I just picked up a test kit for ammonia, nitrates and nitrites from Petsmart, since it was the only one locally opened late. I'd prefer to use on of those paper tab testers, for convenience, but the are significantly more expensive. Does anyone know where I can get them for a good price online?
 
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thanks all for the timely responses

so for garage over wintering its different from the pond where you limit circulation of the water so the denser, warmer water remains on the bottom. That makes sense since there is no bacteria yet established. Should I use one of the bacteria additives or is it better to put the old media from the filters from the pond into the tubs? if the later, is filtration still needed.

I assume then you will have to monitor water temps closer, what's the coldest water temp before needing to add heat?

lastly, I just picked up a test kit for ammonia, nitrates and nitrites from Petsmart, since it was the only one locally opened late. I'd prefer to use on of those paper tab testers, for convenience, but the are significantly more expensive. Does anyone know where I can get them for a good price online?

What do you have for filter media from the old pond and what condition is it in? (has it been sitting in still water for very long?) That would be better than any bacteria in a bottle.
Still use a canister filter. If you simply hang a bag of old media in the tub, it will only contribute to the ammonia produced if there is any detritus trapped in it.

There will be no temperature difference in a pond unless you have more than 5 feet of depth.
Do not go with strip tabs for testing. Liquid test kits are more accurate.
The biofilm that is needed to process the fish waste has a limited capacity to process the fish waste. That capacity is limited by the square footage of surface area that the biofilm covers. That is why bioballs or other media is used, it increases the capacity of the biofilm.
You will not need to add heat with those fish.
.
 

sissy

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I used my pond water like you and placed some of the rocks in the water that I had under the water in the waterfall .Since you took some of the water from the pond you should be OK
 
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water update, tested the water last night and pH was 6.6 and Ammonia was just under 2, which I know is not good. We immediately did a 50% water change with the 2nd barrel i have setup to divide the fish into after a few days. The water is about 25% pond water and has been aerating for two days but no fish. Tested the water from that container, pH 6.6 and ammonia 0.25.

I had planned to move half the fish there after the first one stabilized. Checked on them in the morning and they appeared not under stress but did not check the water till the afternoon. I was pleased to see the pH creep up to 7.0 and the ammonia less than 0.25. So far so good, will continue to test water daily.

I will put the under water filter which came from the pond 2 days ago into the barrel without fish. It's still slimy so hoping bacteria are still alive. Glad I had the other container setup which made the emergency water change so much easier. This was a last minute solution in the garage, I'm going to have to clean it up a bit since its usually my workshop. Will send more photos when things are in better order.
 

Ruben Miranda

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Hello
I highly doubt that filter has any good beneficial bacteria As it has been out of water to long, if anything it will polute the good water.
I would advice cleaning it and get it running in the tub with the fish in it.

Those tubs are to small for that many fish at best May be.you can have 2 of the smaller gold fish in there. Think about it it's been 24 hours and already the ammonia is at .25 that is not good odds, and with no filter there is no where to build BB quick enough to deal with the small amount of water and 10 gold fish that produce a lot of waste.

And if your pond water already has ammonia in it you are better off draining it and starting with new house water.

Ruben
 

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