Another Green water problem.

[fishin4cars]

I have been fighting a problem with green water in my Koi pond off and on since I first started this pond up. Although I have gotten it to clear a few times without the use of Algaecides I still can't seem to keep it under control. This was brought up in another thread but I wanted to keep that thread on topic so I decided to start my own thread to allow that one to continue and get back on topic. I must first start off by posting in most cases that the problem especially in new ponds and with less experienced ponders is to try and fix the problem with a algaecide or quick fix out of a bottle is NOT the best way to approach to fixing such a problem, So what other options do we have. I have one pond that has been running for about 15 month's absolutely no green or cloudy water, ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, all read at the bottom of the scale consistently. NO UV light installed on this pond, and absolutely no chemicals have been added except to maintain water quality, such as Dechlorinator, Baking soda, oyster shell etc. However, just on the other side of the bridge, Slightly bigger pond, basically the same filtration, fish load about the same. Again, Constant ammonia, nitrite and nitrate minimal readings, As far as water test, the only difference I really ever read is slight differences in KH depending on rain and baking soda additions. I try to keep between 100-140 but occasionally I over hit with baking soda on one or the other and one pond may climb to 160-180. I don't think this has a whole lot to do with algae growing but thought I would throw it out there for general information.
So here's the problem, the second pond I have fought algae blooms since start up. One thing I can say is QUITE different between the two, the addition of plants. The plant and butterfly koi pond always stays clear, the Higher quality koi pond with only a few plants and a smaller bog does not get clear. I have added UV light, I tried without success the Ion Gen II. Which works against string algae but is not effective for Green water if you would like to know. I have a pretty large water fall that is turning the water over once per hour, and a circulation pump that pumps 1/2 a total pond turn over every hour with 50% of the out put directed across the bottom of the pond and 50% across the surface to keep water from depleting of oxygen throughout the whole water column and have added air to the system to help keep Oxygen saturation high. I also have a large air pump running a large air diffuser up through the center of the pond. I have even gone as far as adding a tarp to shade the pond that covers aprox, 80% of the surface area, So at this point what would you do next? I have my plans for more fine filtration, but that takes money and time. I also want to note that I don't think the green water at this point is causing any harm to the fish or pond itself, other than making it hard to see if there is a fish lying on the bottom or possibly a injury I can't see.

I have a idea pretty much planned for the time being for my next line of attack. But I'm curious what others would do in this situation?

 

[mrsclem]

I had the same problem with our large pond this spring. Bad green water that would not clear. 2 UVs running 24-7 did not help. As this pond has our large koi, plants are not an option in the pond. I have window boxes on the raised sides that have holes to drain back into the pond and have a spray bar pumping water up. Assorted bog plant just stuck in with old filter mats. I got some 80% shade block cloth and covered the pond on the raised pvc pipes around the pond. Also covered the 2 150gal. stock tank filters with shade cloth and the water is finally clearing!

 

[gardengimp]

I wonder, could you do a trickle thru system between the two ponds?

 

[capewind]

Double check the flow/flow rating on your UV ... if the flow is right, bulb still effective, and appropriately sized for the job, the UV should be taking care of green water ....

 

[fishin4cars]

CW, It's under rated, Only a 55wt on a 10,000 gallon pond., flow rate through it is in the correct range but it is under rated. I've only needed UV light on one other pond and that was the 2,500 gallon pond at the old house that was way to shallow. I only used it the first season then never needed it again so never replaced the bulb, This one I started the UV about 6 months ago. The water cleared for about three weeks and then slowly started turning green again. I covered it and it slowly caught back up. Then the weekend of the pond meeting I took the cover off and left it off for about two weeks, Stretching a 20' x 25' tarp over a pond is not a easy task for one person BTW! LOL I got it back on but the water was really green by that point. It has been slowly getting better since I added the tarp but very slowly. I have finally broken down and decided to try the UV block in the water. It turns the water blue and keeps UV rays from penetrating through the surface as well. I started the Treatment last Friday, I only used it at 1/4 strength. and If I had known I would have gone 1/8 strength to start. So far I am noticing a pretty nice improvement. The water has cleared as far as clarity quite significantly, however still can't see past 2. I vacuum the bottom the best I could and I did get a little more than normal from the bottom. NOT as much as I get from the planted pond but more than normal.
I also got pretty lucky yesterday. I acquired a in pond filter that is designed to be run off of air. It was originally designed to handle up to 100# of minnow waste By my calculations I should be under that for total weight of fish in my pond. So if I understand correctly with what I have, adding this filter should cover me for more than enough Bio to handle my load. It also adds air and degassing plus it's extremely low electricity usage is a plus. I'm not super happy about having a filter floating around in the pond but maybe I can find some way of blending it in once it's up and running, Plus having a huge blue tarp over a pond isn't very attractive either but I would rather all this than continuing working with green water.
Still would like to hear from others as well and their ideas, I just keep thinking I'm missing something in my set-up that I'm not thinking about.

 

[fishin4cars]

I wonder, could you do a trickle thru system between the two ponds?

I've discussed this with others in the past. Honestly I don't want the two ponds tied together. Second the way they are positioned it is a difficult task because the two ponds are about 5" different in each ponds water level. You can't pump back and forth between the two because they would never balance. I can't gravity feed due to the Gazebo Bridge design. I am planning on a far more serious Filtration upgrade soon, but I have been planning it for a while and getting it done hasn't gotten underway for one reason or another. But It is going to happen. I'm planning on adding sieve filtration to a shower filter at minimum from the bottom drain. Once this is set up then I'll work on a better fines filter as well.

 

[fishin4cars]

I had the same problem with our large pond this spring. Bad green water that would not clear. 2 UVs running 24-7 did not help. As this pond has our large koi, plants are not an option in the pond. I have window boxes on the raised sides that have holes to drain back into the pond and have a spray bar pumping water up. Assorted bog plant just stuck in with old filter mats. I got some 80% shade block cloth and covered the pond on the raised pvc pipes around the pond. Also covered the 2 150gal. stock tank filters with shade cloth and the water is finally clearing!

Thank you! That's what I'm looking for something I'm missing. Going tomorrow to find something to help cover the filter falls! Dang why didn't I think of this before. I bet darkness will help the bacteria in the filter grow better. (I have read this before that some anaerobic bacteria may be light sensitive, Not 100% sure about this but I have touched on this in the past). Second that's another place I could reduce the amount of sunlight reaching the water that can easily be covered and help make the project look better! .
Another thing I can do really easily that worked on my other pond, add a air stone to the bio area to help increase oxygen to the bacteria. Since I will already be adding the new filter I could just "T" off and send some air there too. This is why I love this forum, Help is usually only a few posts away, just have to spend the time to explore the options and responses. Again, thank you so much for this post!

 

[BlueOrca]

Another thing I can do really easily that worked on my other pond, add a air stone to the bio area to help increase oxygen to the bacteria.

Is this "bio area" a filter? You could add a venturi to the pipe supplying the barrel which would add air but not use electricity (free).

 

[fishin4cars]

Venturi won't work in either of the filter systems, Not the way they are designed at present, I could however add one to the surface out put of the circulation pump, It would add air to the pond itself but may not greatly effect the bio area itself. I really think I have enough oxygen to maintain the bio- but of course the more oxygen the better.

 

[mrsclem]

Glad I could give you an idea. Gemplers carries shade cloth in various colors and thickness. The green color I got is actually 70% block but I have it doubled over the tanks. No more string algae in the tanks. I may get more as I am using pond liner I got at Ollies over my 3 barrel system but even with the rock pattern on it, it doesn't look too good. We did the tarp thing but had problems when it rained.

 

[koiguy1969]

YEAH...i plan plan on thumb tacking window screen over my filter this year. once i get my media in it and the fish outside. i'm so lazy!!! but string alge on the top of the filter is a great fines filtration and nutrient remover with the constant flow thru it.

 

[capewind]

Love this forum for the different ideas, views, etc. too.

I would try the other things that sound like they could work, but I am honestly still back on your UV. Ours is not only under rated, but not hooked up to be effecient (it's placement was temp) ... Our pond volume is somewhere around 8500-9000 gallons (would be 9000 gallons, but hubby did get some gravel in to what is supposed to be his bog)... We're only running an 18 watt Emperor Aquatics Smart UV Lite (it was on hand when this pond went in) ... improper hook up includes no prefilter, so raw water, which as you know can greatly reduce the effiency as well ... Emperor also gives a "suggested" flow rate, as well as a max ... we're running near the max (can not cut the flow back any lower due to pump issue) ...

Hubby was running out the door just now, and I tried to ask him real quick ... he says easy and most obvious first .. he said even under sized, your UV should be doing better than it is. He said if your bulb is good, check the glass sleeve to be sure it is clean/no crap on the glass, and cut your flow down.

Now only if he had the time to deal with our pond issues... Our main pond is a mess, and I cant do anything about it myself:-(

 

[fishin4cars]

CW, I pre-filter the water going to the UV light with a simple foam filter I wash out every other day or so depending on how much flow it is restricting. The bulb is pretty new, I bought a extra when I purchased the unit and about three weeks ago wondered if the other bulb had just gone bad so I went ahead and swapped them just to make sure. The sleeve was really clean but I went ahead and cleaned as instructed in the owners manual and reinstalled the new bulb. I can see the blue light is the sight glass. I don't think it's the UV it self. I went ahead and added the UV block at 1/4 dose and the water has really improved over the last 24 hours. I hope to get the other bio-filter up and running tomorrow once I can get a air pump that can run the uplift for the return water, the needed added air to the filter falls unit, and have enough to keep the moving bead media circulating and moving as needed.
I'm not a fan of adding the UV block but so far I'm happy with the results. Since I do 500-1000 gallon a day water changes it won't take to long to reduce the blue coloration of the water down, I can live with the dark blue water as long as it's somewhat clear. Hopefully with these additions I can get the pond to hold its own until I can get the bottom drain circuit up and running. I think That will help tremendously. I've been in contact with a custom filtration builder and we are putting the final details into a system for that circuit. Planning on adding a sieve and shower filter for sure, and thinking about building a Sand gravel filter to help remove the fine particles. It's a slow process but finally I think and I'm hoping I've got the pond going more in the direction I'm after. This particular pond has been trying my patience!

 

[capewind]

If I am understanding correctly, the block is just adding color to the pond to act as shade, so doesnt sound totally awful to try. It will be interesting to see what works on your pond. I sooo understand the patience issue right now. I am hating my pond. I even know what's wrong, and cant do anything about it for at least a few more days (when we have our spare pump back). Our issues are actually minor, but in my view, feel like I am looking at a mud puddle LOL. We just need a partial water change (sucking the mud off the bottom of the pond) and a Fines filter ... I have to go pick up a pump today for a client ... I am so tempted to go look at the filters hubby made for the two basement ponds, to make a parts list, so he can finally build the one for the main pond, even if it just sits near the pond for now LOL.

 

[fishin4cars]

CW, what I used came in a bottle, made by Tetra. 16 oz were suppose to treat 2500 gallons, and yes it's a fish safe color additive to help reduce the amount of UV rays that reach the water, I used one bottle diluted in a five gallon bucket and added it around the ponds edge. Seriously I could not believe how blue a 1/4 treatment turned my pond. But I can say there is a noticeable difference between Thursday and today. I would say the ponds actual clarity is 75-80% better, but now that the water is dark blue you can still only see the fish in the first 12-18" of water depth. But up near the surface I can see the fish well enough now to see anything alarming if a sore, cut, scrap, etc appear. That's was my biggest concern. I really didn't mind the green water tint as I know algae can be beneficial. but not being able to tell if there was a problem with a fish was getting disturbing.
I'm also in the same boat, It's not like I don't know what to do to fix the problem, It just takes money and time to get it all done. Plus it takes physically getting out and doing it. I've been in and out of the emergency room two times in the past week. I'm having HORRIBLE muscle spasms down my neck shoulder and right arm (which as you would know I'm right handed) It has my arm so sore and weak I can't lift a soda can up to my mouth. I had a MRI and X-ray done yesterday and waiting to hear from the neurologist. I know it's probably something to do with my neck injury from back in 2007 but I tell you it hurts worse than when I actually broke it now. Long story short, even when I have time I can't go out and get hot or I start having these severe spasms, so I finally broke down and just ordered a complete system that will be basically plug and go. ( Or at least I hope it will, at least) I have a helper that wants to come help plumb it in with me once it gets here so he can see how it works and if it's something him and his dad can or want to put on their pond build. I may end up trading off one of the cetus sieves for the labor. Already talked to him and his Dad about this and they are super happy with that arrangement. LOL Works good for me too, If I'm not going to use it might as well get it out of my way and at the same time get something of REAL use out of it. Probably would have a hard time selling it around here locally anyway. Works for us both this way.
Anyway, First pic was taken after I put the tarp back up for two days, Second pic taken this morning. I hate posting pictures of the pond because it really isn't very attractive but we do what we can to try and give them the best care we can. I got in last night when I got home and my son and I rebuilt the supprts underneath the tarp to make it more stable and secure and allow for the rain to run off. As you can see the other pond is crystal clear. Something is working right in the bog! BTW, took a pic of the new addition to the farm, My son brought this tiny baby softshell over early this morning. He found it in a parking lot mud puddle when leaving work after closing! How he spotted it at 1 am in the morning in a Domino's parking lot I do not have a clue. Anyway, we are calling him Domino. LOL I wonder if it would be safe to add him to the lily pond for a while? It's so cute and I love the spots! I have it in a oil pan tub I would normally put small water lilies in. Never been used for anything but the pond. I put about 1.5" of water in it and put the thermometer in from the pond and let it float in the pond for now, The thermometer is attached to a string to the deck so it can't float off, I have it tucked under the deck so it doesn't get to hot and I added some string algae and snails. They are suppose to like snails so I figured what they heck, if it eats some great! LOL He likes hiding under the green algae mat that's why I added it was to give it a place to hide and get more comfortable around me. Not sure if I want to let it go in the lily pond or not. Most of the time when I do add a baby turtle they get out and leave in a week or so. But wouldn't he look so neat swimming with the fish! He's already eating small koi pellets so I figure I'll at east keep him in the container for now to allow any foreign parasites, yucky stuff etc. to come off before adding. Figured If I an QT'ing a fish it wouldn't be a bad idea to QT him as well.