Antifreeze and fish

[joesandy1822]

I already know this is probably the dumbest question ever asked here, but I am going to ask anyway because I need to know. It seems common sense, but....

If you have a bottom drain in a pond, and you live in a freezing climate, what do you do with the drain in the wintertime to prevent the pipes underground from freezing? Maybe a better question would be, do people who live in a freezing climate even install a bottom drain in their ponds?

As posted in a previous post in another forum, we are considering converting our above ground pool into a pond, and we do have a bottom drain in the pool. Each fall, I "winterize" the main drain by putting antifreeze in the pipe. Part of the antifreeze goes into the pool water, that is how I know I have enough in there. Antifreeze will kill fish, right? I know it will kill dogs and cats.....so I'm assuming you cannot winterize the bottom drain with antifreeze. We are thinking the bottom drain should just be permanently plugged if we want to use it as a pond. I know bottom drains are helpful to keep ponds clean, but since we live in a freezing climate, I just don't know how you would go about protecting it from freezing/cracking.

Thanks for not beating me up.....I have searched and all I can find is that most people just don't have one installed in freezing climates. But it is already installed in our pool, so we need to know what to do with it.

Sandy

 

[Pondmaster]

Of course antifreeze would kill your fish. I am originally from Iowa and the frost line goes down 72" there so I know that it is even more extreme in Michigan with temperatures as low as 50 degrees below 0. If it were me I would plug the bottom drain. If you would use any type of antifreeze use glycol that's used in dairies and other food processing facilities. This would be introduced into the bottom drain pipe from the pump side. Make sure that you use teflon tape on the drain plug to insure a tight seal.

 

[joesandy1822]

Of course antifreeze would kill your fish. I am originally from Iowa and the frost line goes down 72" there so I know that it is even more extreme in Michigan with temperatures as low as 50 degrees below 0. If it were me I would plug the bottom drain. If you would use any type of antifreeze use glycol that's used in dairies and other food processing facilities. This would be introduced into the bottom drain pipe from the pump side. Make sure that you use teflon tape on the drain plug to insure a tight seal.

Thank you for not screaming at me. That is what I thought. Funny.....I was raised in Iowa too. Miss it.

Is the glycol you are speaking of called antifreeze, or is it just pure glycol? I will try to get my hands on some, as even when I plug the drain, I will want to keep the now unused pipe from freezing up. I could just suck all the water out of the pipe I guess, but if water somehow made its way back in, it could be bad.

Thanks for posting so quick!

Sandy

 

[joesandy1822]

I think this is what you are talking about, correct? It is actually propylene glycol antifreeze rather than ethylene glycol, which is the stuff that kills dogs and cats so frequently.

http://www.glycolantifreeze.com/

Thanks for your help. Seems like you can actually get propylene glycol antifreeze now at automotive supply stores because more people are becoming aware of the dangers of the regular stuff.

Sandy

 

[Pondmaster]

I think this is what you are talking about, correct? It is actually propylene glycol antifreeze rather than ethylene glycol, which is the stuff that kills dogs and cats so frequently.

http://www.glycolantifreeze.com/

Thanks for your help. Seems like you can actually get propylene glycol antifreeze now at automotive supply stores because more people are becoming aware of the dangers of the regular stuff.

Sandy

Yes that's the stuff and also after you cap the BD suction out as much water as you can and then add the Glycol because some water will find it's way back into the piping but the dose of glycol will protect from freezing over the winter.

when I drained my pool down below skimmer level I made an air hose contraption and blew out my skimmer pipes with an air compressor I would then pour some glycol into each skimmer plug your skimmers also. You probably already do this.

 

[markd]

They make potable antifreeze for winterizing RV tanks- not sure of the effect on fish though.

 

[Pondmaster]

They make potable antifreeze for winterizing RV tanks- not sure of the effect on fish though.

Hopefully The fish will never come into contact with any of it. However if there is a trace amount it will be harmless since it is the potable food processing plant grade.

 

[Pondmaster]

I already know this is probably the dumbest question ever asked here, but I am going to ask anyway because I need to know. It seems common sense, but....

If you have a bottom drain in a pond, and you live in a freezing climate, what do you do with the drain in the wintertime to prevent the pipes underground from freezing? Maybe a better question would be, do people who live in a freezing climate even install a bottom drain in their ponds?

As posted in a previous post in another forum, we are considering converting our above ground pool into a pond, and we do have a bottom drain in the pool. Each fall, I "winterize" the main drain by putting antifreeze in the pipe. Part of the antifreeze goes into the pool water, that is how I know I have enough in there. Antifreeze will kill fish, right? I know it will kill dogs and cats.....so I'm assuming you cannot winterize the bottom drain with antifreeze. We are thinking the bottom drain should just be permanently plugged if we want to use it as a pond. I know bottom drains are helpful to keep ponds clean, but since we live in a freezing climate, I just don't know how you would go about protecting it from freezing/cracking.

Thanks for not beating me up.....I have searched and all I can find is that most people just don't have one installed in freezing climates. But it is already installed in our pool, so we need to know what to do with it.

Sandy

Sandy,

Without thinking I have been answering most of this with a sunken pool in mind because that is what I had. The bottom drain reply would still be valid but I don't know how skimmers are arranged on an above ground.

 

[joesandy1822]

Sandy,

Without thinking I have been answering most of this with a sunken pool in mind because that is what I had. The bottom drain reply would still be valid but I don't know how skimmers are arranged on an above ground.

No problem! I am just happy to finally have somebody discuss this with me at all. Seems most people don't want to bother with such an out of the box idea, but here I have a perfectly good body of water that we no longer use, and I am really finding myself wanting to make a beautiful water garden out of it rather than tear it down.

I have questions specific to the pool, but pond people usually don't know much about pools. And vice versa, pool people don't usually know much about ponds. So unless there are people who have both, most people don't know how to answer my questions.

I am tinkering with the idea of continuing to use the skimmer, but that too would have to be shut down in the winter. That would limit me to an external pump though, and I think I want to go with an internal one. As you can see, I have a lot to read up on and learn. I know the existing pool filter (sand) would not work. I am going to make a 300 gallon Skippy filter (DIY), and still have yet to decide whether to put it outside the pool or inside. Then I need to decide how large a pump, internal or external, direct drive or mag drive. So many decisions.

The big one is should I start it up this late in the season, or just wait until next Spring? I almost can't wait, but I doubt I would get the water to clear now before it would be time to shut it down for the winter.

Thanks again for your help! If anybody reading this has any suggestions, I'd love to have your input. I've been reading and reading, but sometimes I find myself more confused than anything.

Sandy

 

[Pondmaster]

Sandy, if it were me I would spend the fall & winter researching and spending time on this forum. It is more important to do it perfect then to feel rushed and make some expensive mistakes. August is almost half over and before you know it you'll be scraping frost off your wind shield. This will also give you plenty of time to look for those special deals on equipment once you do decide which way you want to go. In the spring you can hit the ground running and probably lose nothing for the extra thought you put into this project.

 

[addy1]

You can dink with it over the winter, but I think I would wait until spring. Everything always takes a lot more time then you ever think it would.

Get your equipment ready, figure out your filters, get the piping. You might be able to assemble some stuff while waiting for the spring thaw.