Aquadyne 2.2 filter


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Hello!
I'm planning on switching to a new filter system next season. I bought the updated version of the tetra 4000 UV pressurized filter last season and it could not handle my pond. My pond is about 4000 gallons and I have 9 large koi and 3 goldfish. I've been looking at the aquadyne filter. Does anyone have any experience with this type of filter? I'd also like to know the type of pump I should use. I also bought a new Tetra pump 4200gph....I'd love to be able to use this pump....but obviously will buy something new if I need to.
Any help would be appreciated.

David
 
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Well hey there neighbor! We are right around the corner in DP. Can you tell us more about your pond? Any other filtration? Plants? I dont know this filter, but from a quick look, it should be able to handle your pond. Why do you think it cant handle it? What are your water parameter?
 

crsublette

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Let me first say...

WELCOME!!! :)


Quick disclaimer: I don't have first hand experience with bead filters, but I've done quite a bit of research. I am going to get a bit windy here... :)


From looking at a description of the Aquadyne line, at MacArthur Watergardens website, looks like you would be going for the 2.2 model for a recommend 5,000 gallon pond which requires, according to their operation instructions, a 5,000gph pump to properly backwash the unit. You could go for the 1.1 model for a recommended 3,000 gallon pond that only requires 3,900gph pump. only IF you were to go by your pond's gallons recommendation.

The bead filtration unit is a combination unit. They do both mechanical and bio-filtration and this is why it must be backwashed. Backwashing simply stirs up the special beads inside the unit so the beads "release" the debris and the debris gets flushed. I am told this does not disturb the bacteria colonies, but this sounds odd since bacteria can be disturbed by water shear so I'm gonna reserve my skeptism about the "backwashing not disturbing the bacteria" for now.

You must use the correct pump, the flowrate recommended by the manufacturer, to properly backwash the unit. If you ignore to maintain frequent backwashes or the backwashes are too weak, then the beads will not be cleaned of debris causing the unit to not perform efficiently.

You need to not trust the manufacturers on certain things. I know it is a wierd thing to say. The problem is matching bio-filtration units to "recommended pond volumes". Bio-filtration does not care one bit at all about how many gallons of water your pond has. Bio-filtration only cares about the naturally occuring bacteria, housed inside the unit, processing dangerous ammonia into "safer" nitrates, which is all part of the nitrification cycle. Your fish, plant decomposition, and even fish food eventually creates the bad stuff that the bio-filtration feeds on to make it "safer". "safer" in quotes since the end product, nitrates, can be harmful to fish eventually in very huge quantities. The gallons of water has absolutely zero relevance to volume of bio-mass to be processed by the bacteria. Bio-filtration must be matched, or slighter bigger, than the actual volume of daily biological waste produced inside your pond. This can be extremely tough to do, at best is good guessing, so most manufacturers simply say "recommonded pond volumes".

However, the Aquadyne actually gives you a "total pounds of fish" recommendation, which is much better to use rather than pond gallons. USE THIS instead of the "pond volume recommendation". Since the Aquadyn does takes this extra step, then this makes me feel a little bit better about the product. For bead filters, I'm a bigger fan of the Advantage bead filter setup due to how it is setup and it has options; unfortunately, it costs twice as much as the Aquadyne. I have always read, when going the bead filter route, always choose the filter system that is 2~3 times bigger than your fish load, but you can go with any of the units to see how long it lasts you. Generally, if you are able to test any ammonia or nitrites at all, then this means your bio-filtration unit is failing and it needs to be improved or expanded.

"9 large koi and 3 goldfish". I generally assume each koi is 17" koi and golfish 8" if not fed much. I also double the inches of koi since koi produce much more waste than an equivalent sized goldfish. If you do take care of them with many frequent, high quality feedings, then I would assume each koi might get up to 32", then double that for my calculations, and 12" on the regular gold fish. With my calculations, you have .8" of fish per 10 gallons at least, or 1.7" of fish per 10 gallons of water at most. You'd probably be fine with some sort of cheap bio-filtration unit that you can DIY very easily so I would think just one bead filter, that equally matches your total pounds of fish, would be enough for your pond. HOWEVER, the fish do breed so you might have to take into consideration of the new koi/goldfish if you can't do some population control or can't give them away.

Koi Weight. Koi weight all depends on if they are a standard fin (which is your typical koi) or a long fin (which is butterfly koi). A 16" koi is approximately 890grams (that is 2 pounds) and a 24" koi is approximately 3,050grams (around 7 pounds). A 32" koi is approximately 9,008 grams (around 15 pounds).

I'm not for sure how much the regular, comet goldfish, would weight, which is probably not much at all. I would probably be generous in saying a 8" comet gold fish is half a pound.

If your "9 large koi" that were 16" each and your gold fish 8", then your total fish pounds would probably be around 19.5 pounds. If you were doing high frequent, high quality feedings, then probably be around 139 pounds total of fish.

So, best to choose your the size of your bead bio-filtration unit according to the total pounds you think you might have in a few years, which could be 19.5 pounds or 139 pounds.

You could take the easy route, choose a unit that matches your pound's total gallons, and wait and see if it is enough. When the fish outgrow the bio-filtration, then you can keep what ya have and connect another bio-unit.

Heh, sorry. I don't know of any better way of pin pointing it. If I were you, then I would choose the system model that properly matches your potential, after a few years, total of 139 pounds of fish.


Good luck! :goldfish:


((side note #1: bead bio-filtration units work much better if you have a mechanical filter unit cleaning the water of debris before the pond water goes into the bead filter))

((side note #2: supposedly the bacteria in the bead filters work better when the KH is at 200 or higher due to the high volume of nitric acid produced inside the unit ... i'm not entirely convinced on this though))

((side note #3: all these bacteria actually do occur naturally ... do not need to add any specialized bacteria products unless you feel otherwise))
 

crsublette

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Yep, just looked at the Aquadyne product page again and your thread title. Ha! Yep, the Aquadyne 2.2b with blower says it can handle a fish load of 160 pounds and it looks like you could get away with just a 2,200 gph pump for backwash since the unit has the blower.

It is a bit odd that it says the "2.2" and "2.2b with blower" has the same volume of bead media yet it says the unit processes different volumes of fish load.

So, you might be ok with the "2.2b with blower" model.

Personally, for bead filters, I would always go one size higher than what I personally think I should use; so, I would probably choose the "4.4c with blower" model if I went with Aquadyne.
 
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@ goldfish!
Thanks very much for all of your help. VERY informative.....I really appreciate it. This is going to be a big investment therefore I really want to do my research before jumping into something that may not work.

2 of my koi are about 16" long, the rest are about 10". They also surprised me with 3 babies this fall.
the goldfish are only 8"

During the summer they are fed twice a day on weekends and then they feed on a food that disolves over the week along with plants. they are vegetarian! This however, creates a lot of debrie and one reason the Tetra couldn't handle the load. I had to back flush weekly or even twice a week, if not done, the waterfall went down to a trickle.

I think the Aqadyne 2.2 with the 4200gph pump may be okay......I want to do more research on the best pump for this filter.
I agree, the advantage bead filter is NICE...but too expensive. I'm hoping the aqadyne will be able to handle the job. There is also one called the Tarpon that looks similiar and is even cheaper. So much to think about.

Do you know anyone who is currently using the aquadyne or who has used it?

Thanks again!!!

David
 

crsublette

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Yeah, that's the maintenance of having a pond. You will either have to flush the bio-filter or mechanical filter once or twice a week. The best DIY bio-filters require absolutely zero maintenance because the mechanical filter cleans the water so well. The best mechanical filter systems would require maybe once a week flushes and, if you want to leave for 3 weeks on vacation, then its no problem leaving. It all depends on how the filters are built.

If you got the energy and ability and able to follow instructions and know how to use an electric dril with a hole saw bit, I would not buy any retail bio-filtration unit. A decent bio-filtration unit is far too easy to be a DIY project and it will only cost a fraction of buying something retail. When buying retail, you are paying for the craftsmanship more so rather than paying a unit that can do bio-filtration, but the DIY bio-filtration units might not look as pretty as a retail product.

Steve, a pond businessmen, has replaced his Advantage bead filters with multiple sand and gravel (S&G) filters. To know how to build one. One S&G filter may cost ya around $400. OR you could build your self a Skippy bio-filtration unit. The key thing to remember is it is very important to having a good pre-filter, mechanical filtering of water before these DIY bio-filtration units. If you wanted to put your money into something, then I would put it into a very good "self cleaning" mechanical filter and then DIY my own bio-filtration unit.
 
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[sup]Good morning goldfish,[/sup]

[sup]I don't mean to be a pain, but i have a few more questions. [/sup]
[sup]The first question, that may be a stupid question is: If I have an external pump....what type of device is used to suck the water into the pump/filter? I'm assuming there is a hose that goes from pond to pump but what is attached to the hose in the pond?[/sup]
[sup]Second question, do you know anything about the Tarpon 60? It seems as though this filter has similar features as the aquadyne and is a LOT cheaper...they recommend using a Seahorse external pump 1/2HP.[/sup]

[sup]Thanks for any more advice you can send my way!![/sup]
[sup]Have a great day,[/sup]

[sup]David :razz: :razz: [/sup]
 
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@Capewind!
Thanks for your note. I hope your fairing well on the cape!!
Hopefully it will be a mild winter for all of us.
My pond is about 4000 gallons. I was previously using the Tetra UV 4000 and it worked fine. They changed the design and got rid of the filter pad and for some reason it couldn't handle the load. After a backflush, the water fall/filter slowed down to a trickle within 3 days. I have 9 large Koi and 3 goldfish, and 3 baby koi (about 3" long). My pond is also has many plants, frogs, snails etc. This past season was a real pain in the neck. The company is actually going to take the filter back and reimburse me........after a long negotiation!!
SO, to make a long story short I want to look at other options and I've also been reading that the number of Koi really changes what the manufactures recommend.
What is your pond like and what type of filtration do you have?
David
 
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Our situation is more like the story of the shoemaker and his kids not having any shoes LOL. Hubby does ponds professionally (as well as all other aspects of landscaping/landscape construction/tree/excavation, etc). Me on the other hand, can just barely grasp filtrations, so here to learn so not to drive hubby batty with my questions and why he'll tell me I cant have something a certain way LOL.

We had a 2000 gallon pond that we had to tear out, moved fish inside for awhile, and now have a pond about 6400-6500 gallons, with another connected that is about 2500 gallons (that is supposed to be a bog, but I moved fish there, so bog next year LOL)... Sounds funny to say it, but these are temp ponds, til we get the hardscape done in the backyard to put what I call the real pond (aka the one planned from the start, these others were just slapped in and will get worked in)...

View from the patio (patio is still a work in progress)...
DSCN4807.jpg


Shot of both the pond and "bog"
DSCN4809.jpg


Shot of the little water fall at the patio...
DSCN4815.jpg


Close up of the waterfall that comes off the "bog" into the main pond.
DSCN4816.jpg


The main pond will be going about where the big pile of dirt, and stone dust are...
bed11-1.jpg


and this pic just shows a bit more of the block work done...
bed34.jpg


I dont know if you are interested, but hubby said since you are local, if you would like, he would be happy to come by and take a look and throw out some options to you, for you to do... AKA he isnt interested in charging you, would just tell you what you need to do. He is still flat out between fall cleanups, shutting down ponds and tree work, but could come by over the weekend. IF you are interested, let me know, and I'll private message you with our business contact info, so you can verify we are really here, and in the trade before you give out YOUR contact info.
 
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Ohhh and for filtration... since this set up is just temp, he has it running solely with a Laguna Filter Falls 5000, with an 8000 gph pump that is split... the pump is also feeding a SMALL UV (I cant remember if it is a 25 or 40 watt, would have to ask him), which returns water via that little water fall at the patio...
 
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crsublette

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[sup]The first question, that may be a stupid question is: If I have an external pump....what type of device is used to suck the water into the pump/filter? I'm assuming there is a hose that goes from pond to pump but what is attached to the hose in the pond?[/sup]
People use various things. There are little pre-filters you can buy that attaches to the suction hose to prevent junk from cloging up your pump. There are leaf baskets you can connect at the pump that will keep the external pump primed while you clean the leaves. In addition to the leaf baskests, I have read of connecting various types of pipes or hoses, fairly long, that has slits in them. I'm not that familiar with all these devices just yet so someobody here probably can help ya a bit further than what I can on this subject.

[sup]Second question, do you know anything about the Tarpon 60? It seems as though this filter has similar features as the aquadyne and is a LOT cheaper...they recommend using a Seahorse external pump 1/2HP.[/sup]
Sludge and sediment is what can make the bead filters less effective as a bio-filtration and is a major reason why additional mechanical filtration is added prior to the bead filters. If you just have a simple leaf basket pre-filter and no other mechanical filtration, then I think it is likely that small sediment and sludge will build up inside the bead filter.

Tarpon 60 appears to primarily rely on the bead media to capture all the trash, which the beads do to an extent.

The specialized bead media is what makes a filter a bead filter. The specialized beads are very small with little notches all over so to trap debris. Backwashing creates major turbulance causing the debris to be released off of the beads. If your backwashing is too weak, then the beads will not get properly cleaned. The beads will not prevent sludge and will not trap all of the sediment

The Aquadyne appears to have a sludge trap and additional sediment filtering that the Tarpon 60 does not have either of these options, unless i've overlooked something on the Tarpon product description.

Good to be cautious about cost. There are certain pond products out there that cost much more than their worth. However, I think it looks like you will be sacrificing some quality with the cheaper cost of the Tarpon 60. Generally, I would be very cautious about buying a product that lacks an elaborate description. Tarpon 60 product page. It doesn't even talk about total pounds of fish it might can process; unfortunately, it only goes by pond volume recommendation.

Tarpon 60 might work fine in your pond as long as you are diligent about maintenance.
 
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