Are skimmers needed in a small pond?

crsublette

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Sounds good to me. :)

I think the reason why the 75*F number is referenced by breeders, such as by Mr. Sakai, is due to the fact that the maximum O2 saturation is just right above 8ish mg/L so they can also utilize the fish's higher metabolism and increased growth without sacrificing the koi's color and conformation. Toshio Sakai is a very interesting fellow and a major leader in the breeding and care for koi.
 
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Wow... you guys are scaring me here. I only have goldfish, should I still be as concerned as a koi guy? (lol...no pun intended koiguy). How do I tell what my oxygen levels are? Or do I just do the best I can by keeping things as clean as I can and having lots of plants?
 

crsublette

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No, don't be scared. Just realize there are consequences to everything we do and take responsibility for what happens rather than shrugging it off by saying "nature will take care of it". Just do the best ya can at keeping things "clean enough" (notice quotes ;) ). Plants are completely fine.

I know Colleen has had great success with not keeping the pond "pristine clean" as the "experts" dictate.

You'll love this. "Back in the day" (at least hope folk don't believe it anymore)... the extremely avid koi "experts" would vacuum the roots of their plants and religiously do what they can to dispose of any decaying organics. Crazy, huh?

Decomposing organics can cause problems, but there are degrees to absolutely everything. Simply having plants are not going to cause unbelievable fish kills just as long as they do not suffocate the water and do not promote major bacterial problems, viral disease, parasites, and do not suck most of the oxygen out of the water. I know in some rivers Water Hyacinth is extremely invasive to the point of kill aquatic life. I have seen pictures of the plant covering entire rivers. To control it, there are hovercrafts with an aquatic surface shredder.

However, algae, when going crazy in a bloom, can cause serious problems.

Simply using skimmers and aerators will help you replenish the oxygen and they will help reduce any gas buildup from decaying organics. The main problem is the gas buildup from organic decomposition. You will receive maximum O2 saturation far before you expel the problematic gas build up. If you reduce the organics in your pond, then this becomes somewhat of a less problem. Water circulation, be it by pump flow or aerator, is very important especially during Winter, which I will probably get grief for saying that since it is highly debatable with very good points on both sides of the argument.

There are many types of tests for every type of water parameter out there. I would stick the particular manufacturers such as Tetra, Salifert, LaMotte, API, and SeaChem. Liquid kits tend to be more accurate than paper, but some parameters can only be tested by paper strips or a digital instrument. It all depends on how deep you want to get into testing stuff. Paper test strips and liquid kits can be more than enough that you will ever need.
 

crsublette

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As you're cleaning out the pond, I would do a mild dose of hydrogen peroxide (H2O2). This chemical is actually naturally created in the decomposition of particular materials in the pond, when they're present. The problem comes with the much higher concentrates (27% and 35%), which do not occur naturally. Stick to the 3% generic hydrogen peroxide solution sold at the grocery store and make sure the only ingredients it has is water and H2O2; also, you can sometimes find the MSDS product sheet online that gives the chemical breakdown of the product.

I would only go as high as 1 quart (32 ounces) of 3% H2O2 per 1,000 gallons. This provides the extra oxygen in the water that acts like an oxidizer to neutralize any bad gases produced as you are cleaning and vacuuming the pond. Also, I would have my aerators going as I am cleaning. A weekly regiment of this dosage can help knockback the growth of algae as well.

If you are concerned that you put too much, then you can get a Taylor H2O2 test kit. If the H2O2 is active for more than a day, then start doing a water change to help dilute it, but it should neutralize itself quite fast if your pond has a heavy organic load. So, you might have to do it more than once as you're cleaning, but use it conservatively. You don't want it to linger in the pond for too much longer than a day due to how it can destroy the good bacteria in the pond. So, be conservative with the stuff, but it is much safer than those "algae fix" products you buy at the store.
 

sissy

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geeze I have enough problems keeping my house clean ,I sure as heck not gonna clean roots of plants .If thats true about aerators koiguy then why do they use them in fish tanks so much :question: I never understand all this stuff that keeps coming out .I thought waterfalls and streams and moving water always added oxygen to the water besides helping to clean the water .I know by what i read plants give off oxygen during the day but use it up at night but also eat up all the bad stuff .I hear back stepping on oxygen uses .Algae which is bad,string or single cell and how come real true koi breeders value there green yucky looking water .There water in some of them is still as can be .
 

sissy

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but what you suggest crs will kill plants .I know ce did not understand the use of peroxide and added a bottle and her plants started to turn yellow and die .I just turn off my pumps spray my rocks on the waterfall a little and clean any I see and soak my quilt batting in it and my lava rock before spring gets here and my course filter media .I never just pour a bottle in.I don't know but i know after awhile peroxide irritates my skin
 

crsublette

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Also, Horizon, if you're relying solely on your pond's walls and plants and muck to act as a bio-filter (as Colleen does), then I would not recommend the hydrogen peroxide since the chemical could severely knock back your bio-filter if too much H2O2 was dosed.
 

crsublette

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sissy said:
but what you suggest crs will kill plants .I know ce did not understand the use of peroxide and added a bottle and her plants started to turn yellow and die .I just turn off my pumps spray my rocks on the waterfall a little and clean any I see and soak my quilt batting in it and my lava rock before spring gets here and my course filter media .I never just pour a bottle in.I don't know but i know after awhile peroxide irritates my skin
It depends on how long it is in the pond, the concentrate, and how good your circulation is in the pond.

I never said you can not over dose with peroxide, but it is an oxidizer and this is why it irritates your skin.

You have to be extremely careful with 27% and 35% hydrogen peroxide products since these can give you a chemical burn and is tremendously easier to over dose.
 

crsublette

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Straight hydrogen peroxide is actually used on a swab sometimes, as a replacement for Iodine, when treating the wounds of sick fish.
 

crsublette

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sissy said:
geeze I have enough problems keeping my house clean ,I sure as heck not gonna clean roots of plants .If thats true about aerators koiguy then why do they use them in fish tanks so much :question: I never understand all this stuff that keeps coming out .I thought waterfalls and streams and moving water always added oxygen to the water besides helping to clean the water .I know by what i read plants give off oxygen during the day but use it up at night but also eat up all the bad stuff .I hear back stepping on oxygen uses .Algae which is bad,string or single cell and how come real true koi breeders value there green yucky looking water .There water in some of them is still as can be .
Algae or "the green yucky water" can be a very good bio-filter and a nutritional food to fish. I know major fish farmers encourage tremendously huge algae blooms to help feed the fish and to help control the ammonia levels in the water.

The problem comes when the water is considered to be "soft", that is low in KH (alkalinity). When the KH is low, the photosynthesis and respiration of algae can create massive pH swings, which do stress fish. Algae consumes and releases dissolved inorganic carbons, which CO2 is one of them. Also, algae consumes the oxygen in the water so I have read the use of ozone injectors used to help replenish the lost oxygen. With high algae presence consuming the CO2 and ozone injectors, you really don't need to circulate the water and the water can be quite still.

I have often read of these fish farms dumping tons of Lime or other products into the water to make sure their alkalinity and oxygen levels remain quite high, but I would not apply these products to our goldfish/koi ponds. The concept is the same, but using different stuff for goldfish/koi ponds.
 

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gardengimp said:
I've gone two years happily using a net. Now, I have netting stretched over the pond to protect the fish from the visiting heron and netting the leaves out is a rip roaring pain in a certain place. Plus, now that I've added on, the new side gets a lot of leaves, pollen, dust and general crap blowing in on the wind that a net wouldn't necessarily get. Right now I'm wishing I had this floating skimmer. Seems just the ticket for a small pond. Plus, the pump that is included with it can feed my bubble rock and the skimmer itself will be a mechanical pre-filter for the pump. At least that's what I think. I think TurtleMommy - Mmathis has the skimmer, maybe she'll chime in and tell us how she likes it.
Yes, Santa brought me one. So far, I'm liking it a lot. It has air jets that shoot out from underneath and that keeps the water moving. The capacity isn't what you'd have in a "real" skimmer, but that's the trade-off. It actually does a decent job of pulling in the water and debris! I had an off-brand one to start out with, but it was too much of a pain to keep it going (kept popping out of the water), and it didn't skim that well either. You have to have a certain depth in your pond for it to work since the unit sits down in the water. I think it's something like 14" or 18" minimum pond depth.
 

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gardengimp said:
I've gone two years happily using a net. Now, I have netting stretched over the pond to protect the fish from the visiting heron and netting the leaves out is a rip roaring pain in a certain place. Plus, now that I've added on, the new side gets a lot of leaves, pollen, dust and general crap blowing in on the wind that a net wouldn't necessarily get. Right now I'm wishing I had this floating skimmer. Seems just the ticket for a small pond. Plus, the pump that is included with it can feed my bubble rock and the skimmer itself will be a mechanical pre-filter for the pump. At least that's what I think. I think TurtleMommy - Mmathis has the skimmer, maybe she'll chime in and tell us how she likes it.
Yes, Santa brought me one. So far, I'm liking it a lot. It has air jets that shoot out from underneath and that keeps the water moving. The capacity isn't what you'd have in a "real" skimmer, but that's the trade-off. It actually does a decent job of pulling in the water and debris! I had an off-brand one to start out with, but it was too much of a pain to keep it going (kept popping out of the water), and it didn't skim that well either. You have to have a certain depth in your pond for it to work since the unit sits down in the water. I think it's something like 14" or 18" minimum pond depth.
 
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I don’t vacuum my plant roots lol... however each spring I use a pool skimmer and pull out the big stuff from the bottom. I follow this up with taking my wet/dry vac and get as much muck up off the bottom. I pretty much have it down so I can suck stuff up and stop it before any guck goes back into the pond. I then dump the water into the garden. Throughout the season I will trim old lily leaves and flowers so they don’t sink and rot on the bottom. The good news for me is the fact we have never lost any fish, and they have never looked like they were starving for air. We only feed them once and a while usually if guests are over. This year will be different as I think I will be going for a early spring swim. Looking at my videos from last year I see the rhizomes on my lilies are over 12’ long. I think this is the year to split them. With doing this extra work this year it will be a good time to add the peroxide. The waterfall is a biofilter and I made a biofilter at the top of the river. Both are using the Savio filter media. I have one roll in the waterfall weir and two at the top of the river.
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crsublette

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Very good Horizon. You're alright.

Just be conservative with the peroxide as you're mucking around in your pond and think about doing a good partial water change after you're done. Personally, I disconnect my bio-filter (which is my stream full of algae) for a couple of hours as I peroxide dose my pond while vacuuming.

I don't think there is too much to worry about as long as your Ammonia, Nitrite, and pH is good. Ammonia should usually be zero or very close to zero. Nitrite should absolutely be zero. For pH, it is best for it to be stable and consistant; I have seen ponds do fine in pHs anywhere from 7 to 9. The key is stability and consistency so it is not changing much.

The problem with the "experts" is they tend to exaggerate issues to scare folk so to be "better safe than sorry" and I think it is completely unnecessary.
 

crsublette

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Katydid, my apologies for derailing this thread. There are some good skimmer recommendations so far. :)

There are many types of skimmers. You can also look into the "no niche" skimmers. It really depends on how you want to use them.
 

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