Armed for Battle

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Some of you may have seen an old thread I started about bee stings with koi. My lovable Chagoi, Frank, has now been stung FOUR times this summer. Here's the summary of a loooooong story:

Bees started using my pond to harvest water. I thought it was really cool, and so beneficial to the world! Then, temperatures rose, and the number of bees swarming my pond became out of control.... thousands per day, all day long! Frank got stung, and with each sting, he would spend about 24 hours lethargic at bottom of pond, fins clamped. Day 2 he comes up with his poor face all swollen, and the sting sight is obvious (usually on his lip--bee falls in water, Frank thinks bee is food). After 2 days, he bounces back. Still, I've read bad stories about fish not surviving bee stings. I didn't know how much he could take, or if my other more delicate fish were higher risk.

So, I hire a bee professional to come out, assuming it's a wild colony, and if he can find the hive he will simply relocate the bees. No harm, no foul. Bee guy finds out the bees are coming from a neighbors yard 2 houses over, and they are keeping about 6 or 7 hives. Ugh. Much research (some misleading) reveals that our cul de sac is just outside of city jurisdiction, and there are no laws to protect my situation. We go and talk to the neighbor, and he is a complete a-hole and does not want to help create a "friendly solution," as we were hoping to do (provide more water sources closer to the hives, perhaps reduce the number of hives they are keeping in a small residential neighborhood...). There are other neighbors with small children who can not go out and play in their kiddie pool or enjoy the yard because of the quantity of bees.

Next research project: What do bees HATE? I found out that bees do not like vinegar, clove oil, mothballs, and marigolds. One quick shopping trip and I found ALL of the above at one store! After the bees retired last night, I set up my 100 gallon stock tank in the front yard, full of wine corks (don't worry, I had plenty on-hand!! LOL). The bee pro said bees like wine corks to land on and collect water from. I added several buckets full of pond water to make sure the new source has the right smell to attract the bees. Then I placed potted marigolds beside all the pond plants where bees were harvesting. Small dishes of vinegar surround the edges of the pond. Rocks with drops of clove oil saturated on them are on either side of both waterfalls, and a stocking leg filled with mothballs is hanging in the corner. Unless all of that is false advise, bees should want nothing to do with my pond!!!

Oh, and before you mention it... I really do not want to cover my pond. I will if I absolutely must and nothing else works, but as you all probably understand, I've invested cash, time, blood, sweat, and tears into making the pond into my blissful sanctuary retreat. Covering it up in place of enjoying it would just crush me. That's why I'm trying everything else first. Wish me luck!!
 
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You really ARE armed! Good for you for trying to find a solution that will not harm the bees and still provide them with a water source. Your neighbor needs a lesson in civility and common courtesy. Can't wait to hear how it all works out. Good luck!
 
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It certainly sounds like a good plan, I hope it works! Poor Frank, he must really hate those bees. Let us know how it goes!
 
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You are a better neighbor than me. I like bees and know how vital they are and never kill them around my place, but as soon as dude went all d-bag on me I would have switched to vengeance mode. Good on you for having some earth friendly control.
 
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C-Note I've trawled though all my koi books but could find nothing on bee stings but I did find this bit of research on my good friend Syd Mitchells website under do fish feel pain .


http://www.mankysanke.co.uk/html/food_for_thought.html

Read it and make of it what you will however Frank is recieving more and more in the way of stings and I admit to being a bit worried because of the stress it puts frank under .
Have a chat with addy about bees as she keeps them, they must visit her pond for water how does she stop them being eaten by her fish or the bees stinging them .
I was wondring though why not put out a sugary solution away from the pond that the bees are bound to be attracted too .
Perhaps hang a few bowls of it bees take the easiest option that I know perhaps then they will leave him alone plus the bees and the bee keeper are happy .
Try asking him for some propolis its a by product of the hive that will be useful with treating your koi or simply giving them a boost .

Dave
 
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I agree about asking @addy1 , she is an expert on both ponds and bees:)

What a shame your neighbor can't be civil and work with the neighbors to create an agreeable solution.
 
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C-Note I've trawled though all my koi books but could find nothing on bee stings but I did find this bit of research on my good friend Syd Mitchells website under do fish feel pain .


http://www.mankysanke.co.uk/html/food_for_thought.html

Read it and make of it what you will however Frank is recieving more and more in the way of stings and I admit to being a bit worried because of the stress it puts frank under .
Have a chat with addy about bees as she keeps them, they must visit her pond for water how does she stop them being eaten by her fish or the bees stinging them .
I was wondring though why not put out a sugary solution away from the pond that the bees are bound to be attracted too .
Perhaps hang a few bowls of it bees take the easiest option that I know perhaps then they will leave him alone plus the bees and the bee keeper are happy .
Try asking him for some propolis its a by product of the hive that will be useful with treating your koi or simply giving them a boost .

Dave
Thanks for digging up the research, @Dave 54 . I did start with a bird bath of sugary water, complete with water hyacinth and corks to land on. The bees were simply using it in addition to the pond, but it didn't reduce the pond bee numbers enough to help. Now I have the 100 gallon stock tank set up in a location en route between the hives and the pond, with corks and attractive smells for them. I do wonder if @addy1 has any advice. It's really not common that fish would be stung. Frank is an oddball (don't we all agree?), and swims with his head out of the water, like a shark or something. It's funny to watch, but he ends up disturbing the bees all the time, bumping the lily pads and hyacinth, and of course trying to eat the fallen bees. I wish I could train him! My deaf dog was easy to train, but a fish? Nope. He doesn't respond to my long talks about bee danger, or my hand signals. LOL

Still, trying anything I can, particularly in hopes of not actually hurting the bees, although I currently scoop about 100 dead bees out per day (sure could think of better things to do with my time!).

Thanks again!
 
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C-Note I've trawled though all my koi books but could find nothing on bee stings but I did find this bit of research on my good friend Syd Mitchells website under do fish feel pain .


http://www.mankysanke.co.uk/html/food_for_thought.html

Read it and make of it what you will however Frank is recieving more and more in the way of stings and I admit to being a bit worried because of the stress it puts frank under .
Have a chat with addy about bees as she keeps them, they must visit her pond for water how does she stop them being eaten by her fish or the bees stinging them .
I was wondring though why not put out a sugary solution away from the pond that the bees are bound to be attracted too .
Perhaps hang a few bowls of it bees take the easiest option that I know perhaps then they will leave him alone plus the bees and the bee keeper are happy .
Try asking him for some propolis its a by product of the hive that will be useful with treating your koi or simply giving them a boost .

Dave
Also, very interesting article. Makes me feel even more driven to protect Frank from stings.
 

cas

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Fingers crossed for your success. I don't know what I would do in that situation.
 

addy1

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Well thanks for all the @addy's! I will tell you my thoughts, may or may not work, but should based on how my bees have acted.

You need to break their habit. They have communicated to all the bees in the hives, that this is the place to drink from. To break the habit you need to make the water not accessible to the bees, a netting (fine so they can't get though, shade cloth, burlap etc.) Leave it for 4-5 days, maybe longer (it will take some time with that many hives of bees).

While they are learning that there is no water source there, give them an alternative source. My bees do not drink from my pond. Maybe once in a great while I will see one a lily pad.

They do drink from the small slow flowing ponds, which I allow algae, string algae, plants to over crowd. They do drink from my deck pond, which has a ton of plants and only flows a few times a day with the big pump, circulates with a small pump. They love my streams small ponds full of aracharnis. They use it to land and drink.

The other place they love to drink from, if you prefer not to have a stagnant pool of water sitting around, fill a tub with some pea gravel and water put in plants, creeping jenny, grab some algae if you have it, fill with pond water, they love smelly water btw. Keep the water level just at pea gravel height. A good way to do this is to put in a liter bottle full of water upside down, it will drain out as the water level changes in the gravel.

Once they learn that here is good water to drink safe, easy to reach, they will fly back do the wiggle dance and tell all the other bees drink here. Put this tub as close as possible to the hives, watch the flight path ,of the bees, that will tell you the best place to put it.

I have some stuff I put in their sugar water that drives them crazy, it smells great, pm me your address I can send you a few ounces. Too expensive to have you buy a whole bottle. BTW we add vinegar to their sugar patties that I make for them, they inhale in the winter. I don't think they do not like the smell of vinegar.

Vanilla, lemon grass oil (is used to try and catch a swarm they love it)

Once they start visiting the new water source then uncover your pond. Thinking on it I would leave it covered for around a week, if it was mine. Sucks but it will change their drinking hole.

Oh and another choice, go buy some cheap honey, at their new watering hole sprinkle a little on the pea gravel edge of the new drinking tub etc. They can smell a drop of honey from far far away, it is unreal how that attracts them. If you belong to costco they carry honey real cheap, you could even dilute it. They will come there to eat it and also start coming to drink, wiggle dance with all the other bees come here.



Really sucks that bee keeper won't do anything to help, it is so easy, a tub of water with a small pump and they would drink there. The pump just to keep it fresh.
 

addy1

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if mine bothered any neighbor we would do whatever we had to to make them stop. Luckily we provide food water shelter, they do fly out for food, our land does not give them that much food. lol
 
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Well thanks for all the @addy's! I will tell you my thoughts, may or may not work, but should based on how my bees have acted.

You need to break their habit. They have communicated to all the bees in the hives, that this is the place to drink from. To break the habit you need to make the water not accessible to the bees, a netting (fine so they can't get though, shade cloth, burlap etc.) Leave it for 4-5 days, maybe longer (it will take some time with that many hives of bees).

While they are learning that there is no water source there, give them an alternative source. My bees do not drink from my pond. Maybe once in a great while I will see one a lily pad.

They do drink from the small slow flowing ponds, which I allow algae, string algae, plants to over crowd. They do drink from my deck pond, which has a ton of plants and only flows a few times a day with the big pump, circulates with a small pump. They love my streams small ponds full of aracharnis. They use it to land and drink.

The other place they love to drink from, if you prefer not to have a stagnant pool of water sitting around, fill a tub with some pea gravel and water put in plants, creeping jenny, grab some algae if you have it, fill with pond water, they love smelly water btw. Keep the water level just at pea gravel height. A good way to do this is to put in a liter bottle full of water upside down, it will drain out as the water level changes in the gravel.

Once they learn that here is good water to drink safe, easy to reach, they will fly back do the wiggle dance and tell all the other bees drink here. Put this tub as close as possible to the hives, watch the flight path ,of the bees, that will tell you the best place to put it.

I have some stuff I put in their sugar water that drives them crazy, it smells great, pm me your address I can send you a few ounces. Too expensive to have you buy a whole bottle. BTW we add vinegar to their sugar patties that I make for them, they inhale in the winter. I don't think they do not like the smell of vinegar.

Vanilla, lemon grass oil (is used to try and catch a swarm they love it)

Once they start visiting the new water source then uncover your pond. Thinking on it I would leave it covered for around a week, if it was mine. Sucks but it will change their drinking hole.

Oh and another choice, go buy some cheap honey, at their new watering hole sprinkle a little on the pea gravel edge of the new drinking tub etc. They can smell a drop of honey from far far away, it is unreal how that attracts them. If you belong to costco they carry honey real cheap, you could even dilute it. They will come there to eat it and also start coming to drink, wiggle dance with all the other bees come here.



Really sucks that bee keeper won't do anything to help, it is so easy, a tub of water with a small pump and they would drink there. The pump just to keep it fresh.
Thank you thank you thank you!! I will PM you, and also giong to add some local honey to the wine corks floating in the stock tank I placed in their flight path. I was trying so hard to avoid covering the pond, but if I must do so temporarily, then I must. Did I mention... THANK YOU!
 
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Altogther, what I imagined would be a "Giant Super Force Field" of bee repellent around my pond turns out to be fairly useless. But my backyard sure does STINK from it all! :vomit::meh::depressed::hungover:
 

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