Barely alive fish

[milocat2012]

I'm curious maybe someone actually knows why this is happening this winter. I had ponds for over 10 years but never had any problem in the winter and we had some harsh winters before. Just a little details about what happened: in the beginning of January it got colder here (i live in New Jersey) i noticed that one of my fish started swimming in the pond, as the others were just sitting on the bottom of the pond as they normally do in the winter. I though it was weird as i've never seen fish swimming laps in the winter. So i didn't actually know what to do, but just watch that fish for the whole day. unfortunately next morning i found this fish on the bottom of my pond lying on its side. it looked dead, but when i took it out thru the hole in the ice it actually still was barely alive, so i set up the quarantine tank in the garage, filled it up with cold water from the pond and put fish in it, hoping that if the water slowly warms up and it will help. i also gave it 1 injection of Baytril. luckily injecting was easy to do as fish didn't give me any resistance from it's almost dead stage. fish was just floating belly up in the tank but after about an hour after the injection the fish was already keeping itself upright and started to swim. I also put some Nitrofuracin Green in the water. i kept this fish in the garage for 10 days till weather warmed up and i slowly brought the water temperature in the tank (it was in the upper 40s F) to the pond temp. that was around 40 F then. and i released it back to the pond, and so far it's doing well in there. Now the weather got freezing again about 3 days ago, pond froze up again, and my 3 air stones and 1 deicer are only keeping 4 small holes in the ice, and 3 days ago i noticed that the other fish started to swim laps in icy cold water, so i already knew that it's definitely a bad sign, but still just watched it, but of course the story repeated itself and i found it belly up on the bottom of the pond yesterday morning: so back to the same steps again. This fish was even in the worse condition than the first one: it didn't have any movement exept i saw it's gills was very slowly opening. the injection also was very easy with it. but the result is promising now: it took much longer time to recover for this fish, it was floating belly up for 4-5 hours, but by the middle of the day the water temp warmed up from low 30 F to upper 30s F, and it's started to keep itself upright. Today it's swimming in the tank and looking fine for now. i will probably have to keep it in the garage till weather warms up. Is anybody knows why this is happening this winter? Both of this fish was purchased and shipped from Hawaii back in the summer and were fine even when it got colder till it got real cold. not sure if it has something to do that they're in the warm climate before they got here: the first one that collapsed is 3 years old and the second is 2 y.o.
So i hope this info helps if anyone has similar problem. the attached are the pictures of the sick fish: the first is the is 3 y.o. before i released it back to the pond 2 weeks ago, and the second is the sick fish that swimming in my garage now.

 

[Mmathis]

The Mods (thanks, Ian!) moved this post out of another thread -- I think it got lost in there . Can anyone help Milocat?

 

[Ruben Miranda]

Hello
Very entrusted in this subject/post.

I just lost my oldest koi in the same way
it was swimming laps around the edge kinda wiggling back and forth but it past away before I could get the Q tank set up.

all others are fine
but I am wacthing this post to see what I can find out.

Ruben

 

[gardengimp]

Oh Ruben, I am so sorry for you. I don't have anything constructive to add, but I'm sending you cyber hugs.

 

[callingcolleen1]

The fish that are sick, are they the largest fish in the pond by chance? I suspect your water is of poor quality. As the years go by, the fish grow larger and what may have worked before may no longer be suffient to sustain the now larger fish population. In the winter, gases can built up under the ice. If the largest fish are most affected, it could be low oxygen and toxic gases in the pond, and larger fish breathe more and require more oxygen, so they take in more of the toxic gases first, so they get sick first.

It would be wise to do a partial water change and get the pump and filter going to clear and clean up the water. I keep my pumps going all winter and I live in Canada. I also use a heater when the temperature gets below minus 10 C, I think that is in the 15F range.

It is not likely to be parasitic activity when the water is this is cold. It is most likely to be related to gas is build up under the ice.

Sorry for you loss, please keep me updated on your situation. Will try to respond much more quicker this time.

 

[milocat2012]

Thanks for your responses. I just wanted to give i little update on those fish that i treated. The first one (my gin rin Kohaku) that was almost dead in January, is doing really well now. Ever since i treated him and released back in the pond he was doing just fine. The second one (i treated him at the end of january -tancho kujaku) still is struggling in there. Since i released him back he was fine for a few days, but then at times he would start swimming around then settles on the bottom again, sometime he and one other other fish (my gin rin benigoy) would roll on their side and just lie like that for awhile. they really look like their dead but after a few minutes would flip themselves in upright position. So i'm just watching all of them consistently and leave them in the pond, as they still respond to touch of the net not look like before unresponsive to anything even injection. it's not even that cold anymore: the water temp on the top of the pond is about 39 F and probably a few degrees higher on the bottom of the pond. It's just strange, i've never experience this behavior in fish in the winter.They're not the biggest fish, just middle size fish: around 14-16'' as you can see on the picture #1 that benigoy is lying on it's side, and tancho is slightly on his side, but the next picture a minute later, benigoy is already straighten itself up. and the last picture is what the rest of the fish looks including kohaku i treated look like. the water quality is fine, no ammonia/nitrates.

 

[callingcolleen1]

I see that one of the goldfish is laying on it's side, and I have seen my gold fish do that when temp first drops. If you moved them inside and fed them, and then put them back outside, the food in their tummys cannot digest when water it that cold, and this sometimes can be the problem too. A few of my goldfish only do that in the fall, after gorging themselves on bugs and other high protein foods and then get a "gut ache" from the sudden drop in temp. This only happen to me in the fall, and I stop feeding them in early September, and by November they recover. Have you been feeding them?

 

[Ruben Miranda]

Hello
I would agree that a listing fish or a fish that is having a problem swimming would be a blatter problem.

If it is eating try peas cooked crushed removing the pea skin.
That seems to help them.

For my koi
It seemed like he got a affection or something in his brain.
He was swimming very erratic like is was going crazy and them he was gone.
May be a hour from the time I saw him and he was gone. :sad:
Still hard to take
I go out to the pond and he is not there to greet me after 13 years.
Still all other fish are fine and water quality is perfect.

I hope you get a handle on what is going on with your babies

Ruben

 

[callingcolleen1]

That's such a hard loss Ruben, and I am very sorry to hear about your favorite fish friend. Things happen sometimes, and it's hard to know exactly how or why. Everybody has had fish death from time to time so don't take it so hard, things will get better and I'm sure a new fish friend will find you and follow you around the pond again. I lost a very old goldfish that was in her early twenty's a few years back, but then one of my Koi found me, and then the other fish followed the big friendly one, and before you know it you will have new big fish friends! Cheer up, spring will come soon and the flowers will grow and everything will be brand new again!

 

[Ruben Miranda]

Hello
Thanks Colleen
I know it will
But I am a big softy when it come to my pets (Don't tell anyone) :razz:
But yes we all have are losses such is life.

Ruben

 

[milocat2012]

Yes loosing pets is hard on anybody. As for feeding my fish, I haven't fed them for a long time. I think since mid October sometimes. I didn't feed the fish I was treating while they're in the Q. tank. I only gave them 1 Baytril infection which helped them both, and I only let the water to warm up a little: about 15 degrees above the pond temp. And I was keeping it at that temp. to make it easier to move them back in the pond. So far the first one is doing fine since mid January after I move him back. and like I said before the second one still weak along with that orange koi that keep lying on it's side off and on. He's actually was the first one that I saw doing it back in November, but always uprite itself if I touch him. Then he stopped doing it and looked fine, and a week ago started to do it again. I don't want to touch and disturb them, as they both are not in nonresponsive stage as before, so I just let them be, and watch them every day. However now hopping that they're still ok as I was away for the weekend and didn't see them for 2 days. So will check them out tomorrow morning.

 

[callingcolleen1]

What's the temperture down there milocat? How thick is the ice now? Do you think the three air stones are circulating the pond enough? I find that ponds that have some circulation for the winter do better. Hope your fish all make it too, sometimes a small water change helps big time too.

 

[milocat2012]

Temperature now going up already: day time comes up to about 45F, at night goes down to around 30F. pond water temp on the top around 39F. pond was free of ice for a long time now, i already unplugged my 2 deicers, no need for them but 3 air stones are still going. My pond was never completely frozen even when it was very cold: 3 air stones kept 3 holes in the ice plus 2 deices had pretty big hole open too, so i always had at least 4 holes in the ice at all times when it was freezing as well as i kept constant eye on my fish, that's how i could catch in time to save them then they started to swim and then flipped over. I wish i could put my pump and filtration already, but unfortunately i'd have to wait to hopefully weekend, as i just bought new external pump and huge (3 times bigger then needed for my pond) bio filter. i always believed that you can never have filter "too big for your pond" so all this new stuff needs a day of working outside to set up, glue together new piping and connections. So i'm hoping this weekend the weather would cooperate with our need to work outside and it will warmer and no rain. meanwhile i'm going to vacuum pond bottom today. It's actually not bad, as i cleaned and vacuumed it really well before winter, so it's almost free of leaves and debris, but some string algae blooms did accumulate in the bottom, so i'll try to vacuum it out.
As for both fish, it's no change with them: they still lie on their size most of the time, but respond when i touch them and stay upright after it for a while. The orange koi respond better then kujaku, as soon as i touch him he immediately picks himself up and swims a little and then stays upright for awhile. then i find him on lying on the side again. however kujaku responds slow, but obviously he's not nearly as bad as in January when he was just i step from being dead. So in this point i don't want to take him out again, as trying and give him an injection would probably stress him more. i don't know what it is, but something is obviously prevents these 2 fish from keeping themselves upright. So hopefully weather will warm up soon and they start eating so maybe i can try and feed them some medicated food to boost their immune system. also maybe if i restart the filters and full circulation it will help, i hope. at this point i can only guess and hope. I don't know if something new is going on this winter, but obviously i;m not the only one with this problem: another victim on this forum is Ruben and also i was reading other forum on Practical Fish keeping site from UK and here's a quote of another pond keeper: "hi, Had the pond for 20 years and never had any big issues over winter. However a few of my koi of different sizes are upside down on the bottom of the pond, 2 huge ones and 2 med ones have died and i dont know whats happening. Could it be down to the sudden temp change with all the snow? Its so sad as had some of these guys since the pond was set up. I just dont know what to do!!"

 

[milocat2012]

Sadly I have to say that i lost my Tancho kujaku last week. He was barely hanging there in the pond, but last Wednesday i saw him flip over and laying belly up in the pond. I took him out as usual and put him in the Q-tank in my garage along with benigoy koi. gave him 2 baytril injections: 1 a day over 2 days, but unfortunately i didn't help this time. he never pick himself up and was just lying on his side the whole time (as seeing on the 1st picture), and by the end of second day on thursday he was gone. first day then i took him out i inspected him I saw that he had some kind of weird spot on his side belly (seeing on the second picture) it was very strange i've never seeing anything like this before: it felt not smooth like some kind of growth. on the picture it's a little discolored, blue from the medication in the water, initially it was the color of his scale, just felt kind of rough. i don't know if it was the cause of his sickness and death or something else. probably will never know. The benigoy koi is doing fine so far, still swimming in my garage and wasn't flipping over on his side anymore. i'll release him back to the pond this weekend. other fish in the pond are ok too.

 

[gardengimp]

Oh Milo, I'm so sorry. Sounds like you gave it your best try though.