barley straw

[micaaronfl76]

is it ok to put the barley straw bundle into the skimmer or does it need sunlight to decompose

 

[fishin4cars]

In the skimmer would be better than where the sunlight hits. Although your using it as algae control if left in sunlight, algae will actually attach and cause less water to flow around the straw. In the skimmer the water moves more making the barley breakdown faster and it will work more effectively.

 

[Waterbug]

It doesn't matter. Doesn't work in either case. Getting it to decompose faster could however negatively impact water quality in the short term.

 

[pugle1]

It doesn't matter. Doesn't work in either case. Getting it to decompose faster could however negatively impact water quality in the short term.

I read your article, but not the links to the studies you provided in it ( yet ). I'm not discounting at all what you say, and I'm a totally new ponderer-er person. I gave barley straw pellets a shot after the ice melted on the surface of my pond this spring as the entire bottom of my pond was growing a string algae jungle. Again, without discounting your information and the studies you cite which I do plan to read, within two days I found my string algae starting to turn brown and sink to the bottom. Within a week to week and a half, I could again see the rocks on the bottom of my pond, and the residual brown die-off of the string algae started to disappear.

Now what I didn't tell you yet was that for the most part, my water was fairly clear to begin with. I did get a minor green water bloom, but solved that by adding a filter to my pump. After removing the filter, my water stayed clear, but a few weeks later as the weather warmed up, I started getting more of the string variety growing on my waterfall rocks. I know there are always live algae cells in the water no matter what you do, but another dose of the pellets near the intake for my pump seemed to knock the string algae down again. I don't mind if there's a little bit, but because my pond is fairly small and warms up fairly fast ( plus my waterfall rocks are limestone / slate ) I find the string type grows rapidly in my set-up. My (in)experience with barley straw shows that it seems to work for me, however being a noob to all this and reading all the advice and suggestions here in this forum just makes me want to learn more. My main goal is to have a healthy pond teaming with happy critters and plants. If what I can learn from you and others in here can help me achieve that, then I'm in a good place. There's no way to know whether advice offered by anyone is "good" or "bad", but anything I read, I try to research ..... and to learn from mistakes created from the bad advice. Learn is the key word. We ALL need to have a bit of common sense when following ANY advice.

Thanks for your article. I appreciate your point of view.

 

[callingcolleen1]

Pugle I too am from Canada. I have used pond peat in the past and barley and it's good that you are trying natural remedys as I think natural is best. My pond needs neither now that I have large concentrations of caterpillers and their dung, which I believe is very good for the pond. If your curious about caterpiller dung, I talk about it on my thread, ponds in Canada. Good luck with your pond!

 

[Waterbug]

Again, without discounting your information and the studies you cite which I do plan to read...

Please feel free to blast away. I'm just relaying what I've researched. I have no vested interest.

I will say this about the experience you relayed because it is typical (no disrespect intented)... the single study which started the barley myth saw something like a 60% reduction in new growth, which the follow up studies were unable to reproduce. Been awhile since I read it but I believe it saw no killing of algae at all. That was the best case, in the lab, conditions.

Current claims by barley sellers relate to decomposition of the barley and time frames of 6-8 weeks, generally I think.

You saw a large die off in just 2 days. This is way, way beyond any published claim. If your barley did kill your algae you've found an entirely different process. Perhaps a super genetically altered strain of barley?

On the other hand, string algae die offs are common, without any barley or chemicals. Normally a die off one macroalgae species, of some degree, happens in every pond at least once per year. The chances of a die off happening within the 6-8 week range that barley is used is pretty high.

It's unreasonable to think I would discount studies, algae life cycles, and my understanding of human nature to make incorrect connections in favor of people making claims that don't really have any basis. Sorry. I would enjoy having my mind changed on the subject, but the argument has to be more substantive than I did X, saw Y result, so X must have caused Y. That's junk science and I don't mean that as a pejorative.

 

[pugle1]

No offence taken waterbug . I was just relaying what I experienced. Whether it was the straw pellets in whole or in part, or something else entirely, I just can't say. You seem well read on the topic, and I have no reason to doubt what you're talking about.

Please feel free to blast away. I'm just relaying what I've researched. I have no vested interest.

You saw a large die off in just 2 days. This is way, way beyond any published claim. If your barley did kill your algae you've found an entirely different process. Perhaps a super genetically altered strain of barley?

Sorry. I would enjoy having my mind changed on the subject, but the argument has to be more substantive than I did X, saw Y result, so X must have caused Y. That's junk science and I don't mean that as a pejorative.

Coming into this hobby with zero knowledge, I just did what I read ... and read and read ( re: research ), and the main message was barley straw, so with that info, I gave it a shot. This spring was the first time I've tried it. I read on the package of pellets ( instructions ) that it could take 2 to 4 weeks and that the pellets were best to be broadcast in shallow areas in sunlight. The large die-off wasn't within 2 days... I may not have conveyed that clearly.... the die-off or browning of the algae started within 2 day .... the bulk of it was on the bottom within that week - week and a half and starting to disappear (I could see the rocks on the bottom as opposed to large amounts of algae strings). I'd say it was about 3 to 4 weeks when I couldn't see it on the bottom any more.

I'm a details kind of person. I like accuracy and facts, and waterbug, I wasn't "blasting" at all. I like getting many perspectives on a subject, and read yours with respect as you've been at this for a long time. My calcite stone is going to feed that string algae, so I expect that I'll see its return over and over again.

Just as an aside, this last bout of string algae that started to crop up, I did battle with 1 litre of 3% peroxide ( USP ) the drug store stuff... the small amount of string algae started fading within a couple days. Whether that lasts for a while or not remains to be seen. I've been following many of your posts and learning quite a bit.

As I said, I appreciate your insight.

 

[Waterbug]

I didn't think you were "blasting away" at all, just saying I would appreciate if you did. I like serious discussion and having my understandings challenged. It's how I learn.

To me I would say your algae die off "happened" within 2 days because that's when it started. A die off is rarely sudden and it takes awhile before dead algae loses it's green color and starts to look dead. The only time I've seen this entire process happen fast, like minutes, is by using a strong oxidizer like Baquacil. Works the same as the 3% peroxide only faster (not a recommendation).

All of these things is like trimming the grass, it does normally grow back. The permanent solutions are toxic to fish unfortunately. Adding clay to the water can do a number on macroalgae but then you normally have cloudy water.

On the plus side different algae species do battle each other, tiny creatures prey on algae, etc. So you can go for long periods without a huge algae problem when shorter species get a leg up and push out the longer growing species. That's a reason I like to just pull out the problem algae, it leaves the other shorter species a better shot and the less of it the more concentrated the attacking critters. You may not see all the species but generally a pond will have several species of algae.

 

[pugle1]

One thing I've considered is to just scrub the water fall rocks with a good stiff brush. I tried it on a small spot where some string was growing, and it basically broke up into little particles. My pump picked-up the little green cloud and sent it to the filter. My pump is located just beside the falls and about a foot down ( I didn't know about skimmers before I installed it, so a project for a later date). The little green cloud was gone in minutes, and the water coming from the filter is nice and clear. I have some nice "short" algae growing on the river stone in my bottom and top pond, and my little tadpole snails are feasting happily on that. Maybe I'll wait for the next string bloom and just forgo all the "remedies", and just try the good old brush. Can't hurt, right? Other than having to rinse out the filter from time to time with some pond water.

Cheers!

 

[Waterbug]

Can't hurt imo. Some macroalgae species are very much like thread or "string", very strong. They can clog a pump. Doesn't sound like you have that species which I would consider very good fortune.

If you wanted to keep algae out of falls and rocks I've had luck with putting the pump on a timer and shutting it off at night or even limiting daylight running. I normally only do this with pondless type water features.

In a pond with fish a falls and stream serve as a very good bio filter so you'd have to watch ammonia and make sure you didn't need to add another way to convert ammonia. And you might need a second pump to go on when the falls pump is off. An air pump would be great for that, and cheaper to operate for the same water movement. Depends on fish load, and water temp so you may not need a second pump. A bit complex to set up but your falls would always be clean without any work. I don't like cleaning falls...next day it seems to need cleaning again.

 

[pugle1]

Waterbug, I had a small return of the string algae again ( it's the "soft" type that breaks up easily). It was just starting to form, so I took the scrub brush to the rocks again. This time I scrubbed them all. Not a lot of work as my falls are only "3 steps" and not very large. I have a fair amount of snails now and they seem to love crawling all over the water fall; even where the water is moving fairly fast. The snails have had some offspring, and there's lots of babies making their way around. Hopefully they'll help keep the algae at bay. Too, thanks to Haro and his lovely wife, we've also got a lot more plants in the pond. With those in, they should eat up a lot of the nutrients in the water to help reduce the algae as well.

After scrubbing, the filter took care of the free floating stuff (the resultant cloud) and again, this didn't seem to affect the water clarity at all. I think I finally have it under control, and if not, at least I have a decent remedy for the problem, even if it is only temporary. It's only a few minutes of my time to scrub, so that's not a big deal.