Before or after pressurised filter?

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Hi everyone!

Really glad i found this forum.

Been looking around before I posted this but cant find the answer. I have a 4000 litre pond with a big UVC (dont remember how big but oversized) and a Bioclear 10000 filter.

My water is still cloudy and I want to remove the last small particles that doesnt stuck in the filter. Can I use a skippy filter you are so fond of in this forum and do i connect it before or after my existing filter?

image.jpg


Is it possible also to have the skippy pressurised since I have a water fall?
image.jpg
 

Mmathis

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Hello and welcome, but I’m curious about your Skippy filter comment, “that you are so fond of in this forum.” Do you mean a BOG filter? I ask, because we are proponents of natural filtration using plants. The Skippy isn’t at the top of our list.

Yes, a bog filter can help. It’s best to run it before your other filtration, or better yet, use a Y-connector to divert part of the water to the bog so you have water going to both. For the bog (plant) filter to be effective, it works best if it gets water that hasn’t already gone through other biological filtration.

If you are unsure what a bog filter is, read on in the forum for further explanations.
 
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What is the barrier around where your water fall hits your pond? Fish like to play where the water hits the pond and it is hard to tell what is in your photo.

To me, a skippy filter is like a bog filter minus the plants.

Yes either can help clean and polish the water removing small particles and the fish waste. Bacteria colonizes both a skippy and a bog. The added plus of a bog is that the plants remove "nutrients" (waste) to grow, so they get used :)

It depends on how much space you have. A skippy can take less space. But a bog can be more beautiful covered in plants.

A bog or skippy can be added on a separate pump than your waterfall. or you can make the line split and go to both. Yes the water is pumped into either so it is pressurized.

A temporary solution is to put extra filter in a basket under your waterfall for a few days and see how much extra clear your water can get. Like a crate filled with comforter batting/pillow stuffing. Or you can put it around your pump. Many examples on line.
 
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Hello and welcome, but I’m curious about your Skippy filter comment, “that you are so fond of in this forum.” Do you mean a BOG filter? I ask, because we are proponents of natural filtration using plants. The Skippy isn’t at the top of our list.

Yes, a bog filter can help. It’s best to run it before your other filtration, or better yet, use a Y-connector to divert part of the water to the bog so you have water going to both. For the bog (plant) filter to be effective, it works best if it gets water that hasn’t already gone through other biological filtration.

If you are unsure what a bog filter is, read on in the forum for further explanations.
Mmathis; there's a bit of mis-information here. A bog filter uses plants AND the gravel. The plants are there to ONLY take up the nitrates, not the nitrites nor ammonia. That's the denitrifying bacteria's job, hence why you NEED the gravel and why that is so important. Even if you had NO plants in your bog, it would still be doing it's job. You'd just have a buildup of nitrates in the pond then, which of course algae and or the floating plants/oxygenators would then use. Having a space for more plants is a bonus with a bog type filter. That's why it doesn't matter if you put the skippy/bog filter first or second because both are places for the good bacteria to colonize. The more the better. No plant space with a Skippy, so bogs are better as they do more, especially since they're also larger filters.

Generally, it's best to place any mechanical filter BEFORE the biofilter, but that's only so the biofilter doesn't clog prematurely.
 
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Hi everyone!

Really glad i found this forum.

Been looking around before I posted this but cant find the answer. I have a 4000 litre pond with a big UVC (dont remember how big but oversized) and a Bioclear 10000 filter.

My water is still cloudy and I want to remove the last small particles that doesnt stuck in the filter. Can I use a skippy filter you are so fond of in this forum and do i connect it before or after my existing filter?

View attachment 141343

Is it possible also to have the skippy pressurised since I have a water fall?
View attachment 141342


Neither a Skippy or bog filter is going to remove algae; it's too small. What I'm seeing in your pics looks like fines. To get them out, you will need a prefilter that you can rinse out as it clogs. Your filters (and a Skippy or bog filter) won't get any 'fine' particulates. What a bog filter WILL do for you is give you a lot more space for plants to help out-compete the algae for the nitrates. Too, water lilies are not the best water column filters, for that you should have some floaters like water lettuce or water hyacinth. Once your lily gets large enough to shade a larger portion of the pond, it WILL help keep algae at bay for that reason.

Having a waterfall (and in my case, a LOT of fish) you probably will see some stirring of the bottom and hence, a light murkiness. That's where the fines filter comes into play. But the waterfall won't typically reach the bottom and do the stirring, it tends to keep the upper portion moving, In the late fall and early spring months, my water is super clear (as in my UW cam can see 20' across the pond) because all the fish are moving a lot less, and this is with the waterfalls still going.

In your last pic, I see some foam, so I think you may be experiencing some spawning behavior; when eggs and sperm are released, they add protein to the water column and when shaken/stirred, the foamy bubbles last longer. They will last a bit and turn your water murky for sure. It won't last, so have some patience in that regard. If you don't wish a larger herd, stop feeding during this time.
 
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Neither a Skippy or bog filter is going to remove algae; it's too small. What I'm seeing in your pics looks like fines. To get them out, you will need a prefilter that you can rinse out as it clogs. Your filters (and a Skippy or bog filter) won't get any 'fine' particulates. What a bog filter WILL do for you is give you a lot more space for plants to help out-compete the algae for the nitrates. Too, water lilies are not the best water column filters, for that you should have some floaters like water lettuce or water hyacinth. Once your lily gets large enough to shade a larger portion of the pond, it WILL help keep algae at bay for that reason.
And this is the next strange thing I´ve been trying to understand. Recent years I bought some floaters but feels it´s just a waste of money. After 2-3 weeks they start getting yellow and then dies. It happened for 3 seasons now. I bought them just because my pond is in full sun almost all day and understand that I need some shading. And this is actually a problem for all my plants besides the lilies, they get yellow after a couple of weeks and die. I did test the water with this multi-stick but can´t identify the problem...

Having a waterfall (and in my case, a LOT of fish) you probably will see some stirring of the bottom and hence, a light murkiness. That's where the fines filter comes into play. But the waterfall won't typically reach the bottom and do the stirring, it tends to keep the upper portion moving, In the late fall and early spring months, my water is super clear (as in my UW cam can see 20' across the pond) because all the fish are moving a lot less, and this is with the waterfalls still going.
I have 10 gold fishes and I´m surprised how much dirt it is in the pond. It builds up again after just 12 hours since vacuum cleaning..
I rarely put new water in the pond since the values seems fine and I dont want to ruin the only little "balance" I have.

In your last pic, I see some foam, so I think you may be experiencing some spawning behavior; when eggs and sperm are released, they add protein to the water column and when shaken/stirred, the foamy bubbles last longer. They will last a bit and turn your water murky for sure. It won't last, so have some patience in that regard. If you don't wish a larger herd, stop feeding during this time.
Haha! This is the first year they "increase the heard" and I have about 15 small ones. It´s always foamy in the morning but gone by noon.

So I need a pre-filter to get rid of the fine particles? Can you recommend anything?
 
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What is the barrier around where your water fall hits your pond? Fish like to play where the water hits the pond and it is hard to tell what is in your photo.
It´s what I´ve been using since the floaters got stuck in there before. But I stopped buying them since they just die...
To me, a skippy filter is like a bog filter minus the plants.

Yes either can help clean and polish the water removing small particles and the fish waste. Bacteria colonizes both a skippy and a bog. The added plus of a bog is that the plants remove "nutrients" (waste) to grow, so they get used :)

It depends on how much space you have. A skippy can take less space. But a bog can be more beautiful covered in plants.

A bog or skippy can be added on a separate pump than your waterfall. or you can make the line split and go to both. Yes the water is pumped into either so it is pressurized.

A temporary solution is to put extra filter in a basket under your waterfall for a few days and see how much extra clear your water can get. Like a crate filled with comforter batting/pillow stuffing. Or you can put it around your pump. Many examples on line.

So far as I understand...instead of building a bog filter I should maximize the plants instead in the current pound? If that isn´t enough I build a bog?
 
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Hello and welcome, but I’m curious about your Skippy filter comment, “that you are so fond of in this forum.” Do you mean a BOG filter? I ask, because we are proponents of natural filtration using plants. The Skippy isn’t at the top of our list.
Haha. I´ve been reading some threads and maybe my head just stuck with the Skippy...
Yes, a bog filter can help. It’s best to run it before your other filtration, or better yet, use a Y-connector to divert part of the water to the bog so you have water going to both. For the bog (plant) filter to be effective, it works best if it gets water that hasn’t already gone through other biological filtration.

If you are unsure what a bog filter is, read on in the forum for further explanations.
I just don´t understand why my biological commercial filter isn´t enough?
 
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And this is the next strange thing I´ve been trying to understand. Recent years I bought some floaters but feels it´s just a waste of money. After 2-3 weeks they start getting yellow and then dies. It happened for 3 seasons now. I bought them just because my pond is in full sun almost all day and understand that I need some shading. And this is actually a problem for all my plants besides the lilies, they get yellow after a couple of weeks and die. I did test the water with this multi-stick but can´t identify the problem...


I have 10 gold fishes and I´m surprised how much dirt it is in the pond. It builds up again after just 12 hours since vacuum cleaning..
I rarely put new water in the pond since the values seems fine and I dont want to ruin the only little "balance" I have.


Haha! This is the first year they "increase the heard" and I have about 15 small ones. It´s always foamy in the morning but gone by noon.

So I need a pre-filter to get rid of the fine particles? Can you recommend anything?
if your plants are yellowing and dying, there's a water issue. I'd look toward your water being too extreme re pH, but that's just a guess. The water lettuce in my pond does well in either full sun or part shade, but does look more green in the shade. I'd get a liquid test kit and test all your parameters, including; ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, pH, KH, and GH. Too, are you putting salt in your pond? If so, salt kills plants, so...

I'd look hard for that source of debris if you're getting significant accumulation after only 12 hours and vacuuming. There's an issue somewhere. I don't vac, never have, but with all my fish, for sure I'm getting fines. Now, from pondside, not a problem and it's only at certain times of the day (sun angle) that you can see them. I can see to the bottom (40+inches) easily. But I also have an underwater cam and through this, I USED to be able to see 20' away. Not so much anymore as the fines make it more like 8-10'.

You should not have to put in new water unless you're topping up. Btw, I'd check your source water, just to see if there's something getting in that way (pH, phosphates, etc).

The foam typically represents DOCs in the water, with fish spawning adding to the lot. It should be brief periods of time but whenever I begin to see it, I stop feeding for a week or so; just don't want the fish to NOT eat the eggs. I got enough fish already and culling/rehoming isn't anything I want to do!

My prefilter is based on an aquarium concept called a 'sock filter'. You can google but it works like this; I feed the water from the pond into a 'sock' that is a mesh of certain micron-size. As it clogs up, I then rinse and put back. Now, typically you use this sock concept in a aux filter/aquarium mounted below your main aquarium. The water flows through the sock then a pump pushes it back to your tank. In adapting this concept to a pond, I got a 55 gallon drum and mounted an input bulkhead at the top with 2 of the same size outlets, about 12" or so off the bottom. The water is fed into the interior, which consists of a mesh sock (rough size is less than the diam of the drum, and it sits inside a plastic chicken wire cylinder (for support of the sock). When this sock gets filled, it will over flow and yet the water will still be inside the drum, where it falls to the side and STILL out of the output ports. So there's no worry about me not getting to the filter in time. I used this idea because compared to the Matala type pads, I get a much much larger filtering surface. I think I calculated 1884 sq in of filtering ability. So the sock is roughly 20" diameter by 30" high. You can't purchase this, you have to make it yourself, but it's easy to sew a 'bag', imo. I put a wire at the top of the sock to maintain it's opening an it sits on the plastic chicken wire cylinder. I've experimented and 300 microns will take out the fines (400 does better but you need to rinse it more often) and 200 is my usual choice, with 100 micron in case I don't get that much fines. You can order this nylon mesh online (ebay). I'll attach a pic to illustrate what I just described. On my pond, I have two of these. Oh, forgot to say; the outlet port (be it one or two) has to total TWICE what the input is. For me, it was easier to just get two 1-1/2" bulkheads instead of (1) 3" bulkhead, but the function is the same. You need to do this as you don't want the water coming in to overwhelm the water going out; that's where you lose water.

Too, I have my drums ON my bog so any leaks will still return to the pond. My outlet ports are routed to FEED my bog via gravity.

plumbing at drum filter v4.jpg
 
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Mmathis; there's a bit of mis-information here. A bog filter uses plants AND the gravel. The plants are there to ONLY take up the nitrates, not the nitrites nor ammonia. That's the denitrifying bacteria's job, hence why you NEED the gravel and why that is so important. Even if you had NO plants in your bog, it would still be doing it's job. You'd just have a buildup of nitrates in the pond then, which of course algae and or the floating plants/oxygenators would then use. Having a space for more plants is a bonus with a bog type filter. That's why it doesn't matter if you put the skippy/bog filter first or second because both are places for the good bacteria to colonize. The more the better. No plant space with a Skippy, so bogs are better as they do more, especially since they're also larger filters.

Generally, it's best to place any mechanical filter BEFORE the biofilter, but that's only so the biofilter doesn't clog prematurely.
Plants take in more minerals and compounds then just nitrates, phosphates are probably one of the hardest to remove from the water column and yet many many public water supplies are loaded with phosphates and this is a huge nutrient to plants. your skippy , nexus showers and beads do nothing against phosphates
 
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Haha. I´ve been reading some threads and maybe my head just stuck with the Skippy...

I just don´t understand why my biological commercial filter isn´t enough?
Hi and welcome to GPF! So everyones pond is slightly different. There are so many variables including size and shape of the pond, your weather, the type, quantity, and size of your fish, type of filtration,, how often you feed them…. The list goes on and on. Many members discuss general principles about what works best but it’s impossible for everyone to know what is exactly right for your pond. If you don’t have a big bioload of fish and your water is clear then certainly you don’t need more filtration than what you currently have and there is no need for a bog. I have had my pond over 10 years. I just recently installed a bog filter because my bioload substantially increased. I added 9 juvenile Koi to about 50 goldfish in my pond!
 
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I think the gravel of a bog filter DOES filter and "polish" the water since many people report water clearing before plants have had a chance to get establishes. I notice a lot of sediment collecting in my bog. If I touch the gravel in my bog a lot of particles will come loose and flow into the pond. The particles stick to the gravel and become a substrate for bacteria. You will find a bog helps water clarity and is low maintenance. I think it will take a bog or skippy or quilt batting to get your water clear. Of those, I prefer a bog since the plants make it something decorative. But all are fine options.

Having your water temporarily flow through quilt batting in a basket under your waterfall could have some dramatic water clearing results results even in a few hours . My mom got good results putting her pump into a crate she lined with quilt batting, so the filtering was pre pump in her case. But she has to take the crate and batting out and rinse it which requires lifting the pump.

I would move that barrier at the waterfall since the fish like to play in the splash zone of the waterfall.

Yes more plants are good, but not the same dramatic water clarifying and may bring more dirt in with them..............I think of plants as helping more with the yucky stuff we can not see.
 

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