Benifical Bacteria Survival

Discussion in 'Water Chemistry' started by Gordo33, Oct 11, 2017.

  1. Gordo33

    Gordo33

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    How long can benifical Bacteria survive without water? I am asking this question because there will be an hour (maximum)while cleaning my biofilter the media will not be submerged. The media is k1
     
    Gordo33, Oct 11, 2017
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  2. Gordo33

    Meyer Jordan Tadpole

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    The bacteria should survive for an hour with no problem. My question is- Why would it take an hour to flush a biofilter?
     
    Meyer Jordan, Oct 11, 2017
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  3. Gordo33

    Gordo33

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    First thanks for the response
    I didn't clarify but this is not for a pond biofilter . I am am adding k1 to a sump for my 125 gal discus tank. I clean the sump once a month by removing all the water. I have matala pads in the sump that I swish around to knock the muck off and then put tem into a plastic container with tank water. While the main tank is refilling I put the matala pads back into the sump. . The k1 will be partioned off and will be without water during this process. Usually takes me 30 -45 minutes start to finish.
    I put the question out here because pond or fish tank the bacteria is the same. I was hoping to get a response from you.
     
    Gordo33, Oct 11, 2017
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  4. Gordo33

    Meyer Jordan Tadpole

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    An hour is just a conservative relatively safe estimate. The age (maturity) of the biofilm on the media along with the fish load in the tank will also affect the amount of time. Of concern is not just the Oxygen supply to the bacteria but also the sudden absence of any Ammonia and Nitrite which the bacteria and possibly Archaea need to survive and grow. Less damage will occur to a well-developed biofilm than one that is recently formed.

    Just as every pond is different so is the composition of the bacterial/archaeal communities that populate not only the biofilter but the pond itself.
     
    Meyer Jordan, Oct 11, 2017
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  5. Gordo33

    Faebinder

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    This is a nice topic.

    On occasion I change the water in our pond and I clean up the filter.. sometimes it takes three hours to empty and refill and clean. Usually the filter sits without water for at least two hours...

    I never see a negative impact..... you think we lose some bacteria when we go past the hour?
     
    Faebinder, Oct 26, 2017
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  6. Gordo33

    sissy sissy

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    also temps outside and not placing filter media in the sun will hep it last longer .I always use a bucket with pond water in it when I clean filters or help some one rebuild their filters
     
    sissy, Oct 26, 2017
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  7. Gordo33

    Meyer Jordan Tadpole

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    Many factors come into play in determining survival time of nitrifying bacteria exposed to periods of dissication.
    Considering that these are the exact same bacteria that perform the exact same functions in soil and that they are known to survive periods of extreme drought, it would seem safe to assume the same survival rate in the media of a pond's biofilter.
     
    Meyer Jordan, Oct 26, 2017
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  8. Gordo33

    ZEROPILOT Faster than you are.

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    During hurricane Irma, we lost power for about a week.
    When I got my pump and filter up and running again, I noticed that my water parameters where all just fine.
    I had been concerned as well.
     
    ZEROPILOT, Oct 27, 2017
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  9. Gordo33

    Mucky_Waters

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    I believe oxygen is the most important factor for short term survival of beneficial bacteria. In previous threads about the viability of bacteria sold on shelves in bottles I have suggested doing a simple experiment. Take a some of your viable active bio-media (eg: k1 media) and place it in an "open" bucket with or without and also take an equal amount and place it in a with an air tight lid. Put the buckets in the shade somewhere for 24 hours and come back and smell the contents. The bucket exposed to the air (oxygen) will probably smell the same as when you put it in there (a light fishy smell), but the sealed bucket will smell horrible. It will have that rotten eggs smell (hydrogen sulfide H2S) because the "beneficial" bacteria in the bucket will have used up all the oxygen and in the absence of oxygen the anaerobic bacteria present will be able to thrive and begin to eat what ever available food source there is which will be the "beneficial" bacteria. As the anaerobic bacteria consume and grow they produce hydrogen sulfide as a byproduct which is responsible for the rotten egg smell.
    It's a simple experiment and can be done even with a small amount of media in a small jar or plastic container as long as it has a tight fitting lid. The time period for the bacteria change will depend on a number of things, temperature being paramount. If you put the container in your fridge or a cool place all the bacteria metabolism's will slow down and the beneficial bacteria won't use up the oxygen as quickly, and as long as there is some oxygen present the anaerobic bacteria won't grow. Interestingly though, they will still continue to be present in a dormant state waiting for the opportunity when there is no longer any oxygen and they can begin to grow. Same thing happens with the beneficial bacteria. Even after you've sealed the container and the anaerobic bacteria have taken over there will still be plenty of viable aerobic bacteria (beneficial bacteria) left in a dormant state and would begin to reverse the process as soon as you start to reintroduce oxygen into the environment. It's pretty hard to actually kill off all of one type of bacteria or the other without kill off all the bacteria, which could easily be done with high heat, chemicals like bleach or using UV light.
    Anyway, I'm rambling, but this thread got me thinking about the viability of beneficial bacteria and how some people believe that if you turn off your pump for a day it will kill off all the beneficial bacteria on your bio-filter media, but then they also believe that same bacteria can thrive for months in an airtight bottle on a store shelf somewhere.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2017
    Mucky_Waters, Oct 27, 2017
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  10. Gordo33

    MitchM

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    One also needs to consider if their pond is overstocked or understocked.
    Some ponds have more than enough biofilm square footage while others are borderline and really need the participation of an external filter withsome extra biofilm surface area.
     
    MitchM, Oct 27, 2017
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  11. Gordo33

    Meyer Jordan Tadpole

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    @Mucky_Waters makes a valid point in that Nitrifying bacteria do require Oxygen to survive however, Oxygen depletion would only occur in an air-tight sealed container. Nitrifying bacteria have the ability to utilize both Dissolved Oxygen and/or atmospheric Oxygen. The ability to utilize atmospheric Oxygen is the basis for the 'Ebb and Flow' beds found in Aquaponics.
    As stated earlier, the limiting factor for Nitrifying bacteria in drying filter media is the lack of Ammonia and Nitrite. Without these two (2) compounds, nitrifying bacteria cease to function and grow. This does not mean that these bacteria have died, only that they have entered 'starvation' mode and once Ammonia and/Nitrite are reintroduced they return to full functionality. Several studies have shown that these bacteria survive this 'starvation' for months with no apparent deficits. It should be noted that Nitrosomonas will respond more quickly to recovery than Nitrobacter sometimes resulting in a temporary Nitrite spike.
     
    Meyer Jordan, Oct 27, 2017
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  12. Gordo33

    Bluerooster

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    How well can the bacteria handle cold weather? My pond has been crystal clear untill the temps fell below 50f
    The water temp is about that, I'll check it tomorrow. But when the temp fell, the green came up overnight.
    The cold rain has done a good job of keeping the water temp below ambient. would I be correct in thinking the beneficial bacteria don't like cold weather as well as the algae? The Nitrate, Nitrite, Ammonia, and PH all test at the bottom of the scale. The pond plants have pretty much gone dormant.
     
    Bluerooster, Nov 13, 2017
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  13. Gordo33

    Meyer Jordan Tadpole

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    Other than the fact that algae thrives on the Nitrate produced by nitrifying bacteria, there is no real correlation between the two. Different algae species prefer different water temperatures....some prefer warm water while others prefer cool to cold water. i suspect that you are observing a different specie of algae than previously experienced.
     
    Meyer Jordan, Nov 14, 2017
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