Biofilters are not needed!

[crsublette]

Charles said

Agreed.


I disagree. I think we can learn from each other. I have been at this for a few years and I can and do learn things from people with less experiance than I have. One has to keep an open mind and not think that your way is the only way.

I have been 1) a bit disappointed in that people seem to have closed minds at times. Part of the interest for me is improving the process and pushing past how things have always been done. That can be at odds with people who are happy just to see their fish.

1) a bit disappointed in that people seem to have closed minds at times.

Just "a bit" ?!?!? This is the core of the problem.

 

[Jason]

Grabs popcorn

 

[crsublette]

2) Beginners will just have to muddle their way through like everybody else.
Frankly the biggest problem I see with beginners is they usually don't have a clear idea of what they want to accomplish when building their ponds in the first place. Without a clear goal to shoot for they are left struggling with what they should be doing, and even when they follow advice and direction from others they are often disappointed in the end results because it's not what they expected.
1) Add to that the fact that there are so many variable in this hobby, ones persons advice and experience with their own pond may not directly apply to another pond. Things such are water volume, circulation, depth, temperature, KH, GH, PH, fish stocks, type of fish, frogs?, turtles?, rocks on the bottom?, no rocks? plant stocks, potted plants?, barefoot plants?, hours of sunlight per day, etc... All these things have an effect on how much and what sort of filtration is necessary, or desired.
So yeah, there can never be a decisive discussion on the subject water filtration, but I believe there can be a "serious, decent discussion on the gradation of biological filtration in this hobby," However you also have to temper that with the fact that my idea and your idea of what an ideal pond is, is likely a lot different than anybody else's idea of an ideal pond is, and all we're really left with is a bunch of people just talking about their own observations and theories. Of course I think we can all agree that my observations and theories are better than most. :nananananana:

1) Add to that the fact that there are so many variable in this hobby, ones persons advice and experience with their own pond may not directly apply to another pond. Things such are water volume, circulation, depth, temperature, KH, GH, PH, fish stocks, type of fish, frogs?, turtles?, rocks on the bottom?, no rocks? plant stocks, potted plants?, barefoot plants?, hours of sunlight per day, etc... All these things have an effect on how much and what sort of filtration is necessary, or desired.

I liked it since I agree with it 100%, with one particular difference.

Ideals, desires, and goals only change the context of the filtration's application.

The genetic code of Nitrosomonas europaea/eutropha does not care if turtles or trout or lotus are in the pond. The 300 micron screen on a sieve will never be a polishing filter regardless of how much water is pushed through it.

Now, if talking chemistry, then definitely the efficacy of these will very likely change, which is why every filter do have their pros/cons and none of them can claim true prominence.


2) Beginners will just have to muddle their way through like everybody else.
Frankly the biggest problem I see with beginners is they usually don't have a clear idea of what they want to accomplish when building their ponds in the first place. Without a clear goal to shoot for they are left struggling with what they should be doing, and even when they follow advice and direction from others they are often disappointed in the end results because it's not what they expected.

I would much rather not add to the mud.

I am not going to fault beginners at all for not having clear goals in a hobby that is completely foreign to them.

 

[crsublette]

I was pretty surprised by the boldness of the thread title as well. Seems to be spreading misinformation.

I liked it because I agree with you 100%.

 

[HTH]

Maybe we need a forum for theoretical discussions. Would be nice to not worry that it would be taken as gospel. Not have to preface it with warning and still get chewed out for not towing the party line.

 

[HARO]

Apparently the Vatican has a website for that! :biggrin:
John

 

[Mucky_Waters]

This post is starting to sound like a shoving match between schoolyard bullies, so I'm going to take my ball and go home!! :nananananana:
John

Sorry John, but before you go home, I'm gona have to ask you to hand over your lunch money. :chair:

 

[Ruben Miranda]

Hello
I always felt that you could never have to much filtration.
if it is plants pumps mech or bio or bogs or all of it together.

Can you really over do it on filtration I don't think so but you can do to little of filtration and come home one day to a disaster.

In my way of thinking and seeing things
say you only have mech and plant filtration
What happens in the winter when plants are dormant and not doing there job.
Yes you don't feed but fish still poop (Not as much) but still poop some.

Ruben

 

[crsublette]

Maybe we need a forum for theoretical discussions. Would be nice to not worry that it would be taken as gospel. 1) Not have to preface it with warning and still get chewed out for not towing the party line.

1) Not have to preface it with warning and still get chewed out for not towing the party line.

Since we're all having a little fun...

I wish folk's advice were given a proper disclaimer, that is prior to advice given, " Hey there, here is what I would do and you could do it too. Since everyone's pond is different, my advice might work for you to make things better. Since everyone's pond is different, my advice might not apply to you and make things worse. It's not because I don't know what I am talking about. Ponds, bacteria, and plants are funny that way in that they have their own free well. "

This is specifically why I caution folk about being skepticially open minded and just don't flat out accept someones reccomendations because it is cheap and easy.

Again, this is why there will never be a serious, decent, decisive dicussion on biological filtration since there are always going to be folk that want to stay in their own world.

Actually, it is more like seeking advice from a fella from a Pond Store. Ya just hope ya grab a fella who knows what they're talking about, and, if they don't, at the least, they will say, "hey, I don't know, I might be wrong, things might get worse for ya or might get better, but, forget what I just siad, so here is my advice and hope it works out for ya."

 

[JohnHuff]

Hello
I always felt that you could never have to much filtration.
if it is plants pumps mech or bio or bogs or all of it together.

Can you really over do it on filtration I don't think so but you can do to little of filtration and come home one day to a disaster.

In my way of thinking and seeing things
say you only have mech and plant filtration
What happens in the winter when plants are dormant and not doing there job.
Yes you don't feed but fish still poop (Not as much) but still poop some.

Ruben

There is no such thing as overfiltration because if there isn't enough ammonia or nitrites, then the beneficial bacteria die. In winter, I stop feeding the fish and the bacteria whether they're on the plants or on the filter die. The bacteria only live within a certain temperature range. But I fear that the point of my OP has been missed.

Here were my basic points:
1) Store bought filters are crap because the additional amount of surface area they provide are minute.
2) Natural ponds/watergardens already have a large surface area. Adding biofilters that increase the total surface area only a small additional amount aren't really worth it.
If you dissect my first post, that's really what you should get from it.

Crsublette, I think you should shut up now. No matter what the topic is, I think you're only interested in proving that you are the only one who is correct and everyone else is wrong. Did you even understand my OP before trying to make yourself as some kind of pond guru? Did you? Apparently the only serious, decent, decisive dicussion on biological filtration is the one in which you hold the pulprit.

 

[crsublette]

Yep, I understood your initial post quite well. Obviously, i'm not the only one on a pulpit here.

And thank you for that personal insight about me and inspiring advice, Dr. Laura !!

 

[JohnHuff]

Yep, I understood your initial post quite well. Obviously, i'm not the only one on a pulpit here.

And thank you for that personal insight about me and inspiring advice, Dr. Laura !!

Really? I don't think you did over your self-righteousness. You just want the last word.

 

[crsublette]

Really? I don't think you did over your self-righteousness. You just want the last word.

Sorry... having hard time reading due to my bright righteousness, awesomeness, and handsomeness... can't... seem... to look away... from my own avatar pic. :banana:

I now give you permission to take the last word. :claphands:

 

[dieselplower]

I'm totally with crsublette on this one. Not sure why there is so much butthurt. The thread title was way misleading and he totally owned his side of the debate. If I was a mod I would edit the thread title cause I woululdnt want misinformation on my site.

 

[JohnHuff]

Sorry... having hard time reading due to my bright righteousness, awesomeness, and handsomeness... can't... seem... to look away... from my own avatar pic. :banana:

I now give you permission to take the last word. :claphands:

I knew it, you just love hearing yourself talk, don't you