Bog building

Discussion in 'Pond Construction & Equipment' started by addy1, Jun 22, 2011.

  1. addy1

    Lisak1

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    If I'm understanding correctly, you want a gravity fed bog. I'm not sure you'll get the flow rate you need. But maybe I lack imagination. Are you drawing with the pump down through the gravel? Or planning for the water to just seep down through the gravel? Where will the pump live?
     
    Lisak1, Feb 24, 2018
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  2. addy1

    CSMcMullen1

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    I was thinking of a weir to hold the gravel back and have the pump there.
    I am not sure if my idea will work. I may not have enough fall for the gravity to work how I want it to. I want the bog container to be sitting in the ground so it won't freeze.
    I am also thinking of having the bog in the pond. But not sure how to set that up.
     
    CSMcMullen1, Feb 24, 2018
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  3. addy1

    brokensword Not all those who wander are lost

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    This sounds more problematic than it has to be, imo. My bog is gravity fed (now) but I have the force coming from 40" up, not at the same level. This is so I GET UPFLOW, which is far superior to a surface/downflow through your bog media. I think in your case it would be better to pump from the skimmer bottom then into the bog (force fed through flex pvc -- larger, 4" drain tile tube with slits. The water then is forced up through your bog, which should then pour back into your pond. This will suppose you have a backup plan for if your skimmer water level gets too low and forces your pump to suck air. To get gravity fed, you need to help create the force with which to make it work.

    In my case, I don't have the skimmer but all the rest above is in place, with the addition of a mechanical filter as a pre-bog filter (which is what your skimmer will do for you). I don't worry re water level going low as I don't have the skimmer. To clarify; pump in pond, water to mech filter (40" higher than bog), which pours down a tube which runs beneath the bog media, water rises up through and then over pours into my stream, then down into the pond.

    From talking to Meyer last year, I also had worries I would not have enough 'force' from just gravity (bog USED to be pump fed, forced) but he assured me the 40" height would do it (and it did). There won't be much gravity force if you don't elevate somewhat, hence putting a pump in your skimmer and pumping from there instead. You won't need this additional height then.

    I was unclear exactly where you were going to put your pump but if you had ideas of beneath the bog and pulling water, imagine trying to clean/fix/replace the pump. Maybe I just didn't understand but making sure all angles are covered.

    Michael
     
    brokensword, Feb 24, 2018
  4. addy1

    brokensword Not all those who wander are lost

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    CS; here's the link to how I patterned my bog (originally); there's a pic link embedded and it really helped. Now, the ONLY part I didn't get and thought was unclear is when you dig your bog, SLOPE the sides toward the bottom to mimic a funnel. This will make any bog cleaning much much easier. I made my sides too straight. Hindsight...hindsight!

    http://www.bogfiltration.com/bogfiltration.html

    Hope it helps give you ideas.
     
    brokensword, Feb 24, 2018
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  5. addy1

    addy1 water gardener / gold fish and shubunkins Moderator

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    Nice write up! ^^^
    I made my bog huge, deep, bottom force fed via pipes and most of the pond water running through it. Full of plants.

    I was told by many that it would not work, keep my pond clean, clog up etc. I love the sucker, I never have to fuss with the pond, filters, water, no green water, minimal algae. Pond water tests always perfect, quit testing years ago.

    If I ever built another pond it would be built the same way, a huge bog to care for it.
     
    addy1, Feb 24, 2018
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  6. addy1

    CSMcMullen1

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    I was planing on the bog tank having a weir at the end to house the pump. But after your post it's a moot point. I won't have the fall I need to get the water threw the gravel.
    I was thinking of using a big tank. I think I can get one at a reasonable price. The easiest way I think I can do this is to have it directly in my pond. But not sure of what I want to do. Decisions decisions lol
     
    CSMcMullen1, Feb 24, 2018
  7. addy1

    CountryEscape

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    Build a bog outside your pond. Dig a hole, put in a EPDM liner, then use your skimmer (in the pond) to pull water from the pond, through the skimmer filter, and then have that pump push the water into the bog, through pipes down to the bottom of the bog, and have the bog overflow back into the pond. This is how I have my one of my ponds working the bog. You can also put a submersible pump in the pond (on a milk crate or something to keep it off the bottom, just in case of a leak, so your pond doesn't drain all the way), and fun the outflow into the bog. Good luck!
     
    CountryEscape, Feb 24, 2018
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  8. addy1

    Lisak1

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    Gosh I love those instructions @brokensword - very clear and the pictures are so helpful! Bless whoever the person is who took the time to do that! That's basically what we did, but we really had to put together lots of different suggestions to get to that point. And we did buy the patented, plastic parts! Making our own would have been more fun and definitely cheaper!

    And to add - our bog is six years old as of this coming July and we've not had to clean it yet. I'm not sure why these instructions say you'll need to clean it every few months, but it could be that the water coming to our bog is free of debris. Because we have what amounts to a down flow gravel filter before the water gets to the pump t's clear water going through the bog. If you were pumping debris through it, I imagine it would get dirty faster.
     
    Lisak1, Feb 24, 2018
  9. addy1

    brokensword Not all those who wander are lost

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    I wouldn't put anything IN the pond re bog tank as you'll just take up valuable pond space. ALWAYS remember the Ponder's Credo; you shall always want a bigger pond. So, what you're doing is basically a violation! :rolleyes:

    Do as Country and most of us have; next to your pond, dig the hole, use liner, force feed water into a pipe that runs at the bottom and let it upflow, then overpour back into your pond. If you want the skimmer, just make sure there's a pump there that has protection against going dry (maybe a float switch, here).

    Michael
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2018
    brokensword, Feb 24, 2018
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  10. addy1

    brokensword Not all those who wander are lost

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    Agree, addy; don't know how or why I glommed onto this page/idea, but glad I did. Found this page before I found yours, else I'd have followed your thread re bog building. What I particularly like (as opposed to yours, pardon me) is the larger 4" piping; I think it helps with water distribution and blockage, not to mention cleaning if needed. I really wished I'd paid attention to the shape (sloped sides) more, though.

    This page is by a pro name of Dave Jones; he and I even talked a year or so (he's in Atlanta) and he's very nice to help me with his time. Also, Meyer and he were acquaintances. Both told me to increase the outlet on my pump and I'd get better/more flow than if I kept it at max outlet size. Really helped with my mech drum filter last year.


    Michael
     
    brokensword, Feb 24, 2018
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  11. addy1

    brokensword Not all those who wander are lost

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    Lisa; no doubt it IS because you're prefiltering (I wasn't, hence got some clogging). I think addy is getting away with it because of total volume/area. Plus, I think she filters the inflow with a lot of small ponds prior. Also, I eventually raised the pond pump higher, off the bottom, and think this helps too. I had expected whatever debris that went to the underside of the pea gravel to decay/disintegrate before any issues developed. But my bog isn't nearly as large as addy's (mine is about 4' x 4' x 40"). It's now a bio filter only.

    Michael
     
    brokensword, Feb 24, 2018
  12. addy1

    Lisak1

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    @addy1 has mentioned she has a leaf basket on her line to collect large debris pre-bog.
     
    Lisak1, Feb 25, 2018
  13. addy1

    addy1 water gardener / gold fish and shubunkins Moderator

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    I don't pre-filter except for a leaf basket on the pump. I do draw the water from about a foot from the bottom of the pond. And I do have one heck of a lot of volume.

    The small ponds get dirty water from the big pond and water fall right back into the big pond. The only water going to the bog is straight from the big pond.

    On year 8 never have touched the bog, i.e. cleaning it out, except for yanking excess plants. Which I do a lot. They grow like weeds.
     
    addy1, Feb 25, 2018
  14. addy1

    brokensword Not all those who wander are lost

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    Well, don't think leaves would necessary ever get into my bog unless they were rotting at the bottom. I think it's the small particles that clog the pea gravel eventually that got mine. Just too many to decay fast enough and the water started channeling up the sides (and out, too!). When I cleaned my bog, there wasn't anything you could actually measure, more just fine grit etc.

    I think a lot of addy's finer particles get caught up by her pools with plants, algae, etc. By the time it hits her bog, there's probably just water and very very fine particles.

    EDIT: so @addy1 , you don't run the inflow through your small ponds? Thought for sure I read that in one of your threads...
     
    brokensword, Feb 25, 2018
  15. addy1

    CSMcMullen1

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    If the plants are growing liike weeds I guess it's working very well
     
    CSMcMullen1, Feb 25, 2018
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  16. addy1

    addy1 water gardener / gold fish and shubunkins Moderator

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    Here this will help, maybe. The big pond, stream and bog were there first. The 1000 gallon stock pond and three ponds to the left and the deck ponds were added after the fact. The middle loop pond is a 300 gallon stock tank, it is full of lotus. The ponds are fishless unless eggs wander in and survive. There were 3-4 small fry in the first small loop pond last fall. The deck ponds are fishless.
    The 1000 gallon and big pond have fish.

    The arrow coming out of the water to the right goes to the main pump. The main pump has two T's, one sends dirty water to the 1000 gallon stock tank which waterfalls back into the big pond. The other T is a garden hose connection, the red line running behind the bog is a garden hose that sends water to the three loop ponds. They water fall into each other, then back into the main pond.

    The main water flow from the pump goes right into the bog. The black lines are pvc lines running under the pea gravel. The red arrow coming out of the bog is the water fall back into the big pond. The water also weeps over the bog wall.

    The green line out lines the bog.

    The black arrow to the left points to the flow into the skimmer (no pump skimmer) the water is drawn into the pump via a T.

    The light blue lines are the flow into the deck ponds and stream back into the big pond. It is a separate small clear water pump that feeds the deck ponds on a timer. 100 feet more or less of head pressure.

    waterflow.JPG
     
    addy1, Feb 25, 2018
  17. addy1

    brokensword Not all those who wander are lost

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    Hahahahahahahahaha; ah, yeah, addy, really cleared that up! I feel like I'm looking at a Carman San Diego map!

    Or, where's Waldo? Tis okay, I get the idea; you only filter a bit using the small ponds and basically, most of the flow goes pond to bog. I think. Erm, maybe. Well, wait a minute, let me follow the red squigglies again until they cross the light blue ones...no, there's a black one involved too...hmm, if I start at one end and follow....

    okay, I believe you. Certainly going to take me years to figure out the flow pattern over there...


    heh


    Michael
     
    brokensword, Feb 25, 2018
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  18. addy1

    addy1 water gardener / gold fish and shubunkins Moderator

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    Geez it is perfectly clear to me!
     
    addy1, Feb 25, 2018
  19. addy1

    Lisak1

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    Oh, phew! I thought it was just me! Were you an engineer in a previous life @addy1 ? My son is and he draws me pictures like this and goes "there! That should explain everything!" Ummm... right!
     
    Lisak1, Feb 26, 2018
  20. addy1

    addy1 water gardener / gold fish and shubunkins Moderator

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    Clear as mud you all are saying?

    ok lets try this, pink flow to the big pump from the big pond

    yellow flow from the big pump into the bog

    red the T split to the 1000 gallon pond and the three loop ponds dirty water from big pond

    purple flow from one pond to the next back into the big pond

    gray flow from bog into big pond

    green outline of bog

    black pvc lines under pea gravel

    light blue flow from small pump on timer to deck ponds, stream and stream ponds. Dirty water flow

    The big pond is the only one that gets bog filtered water. The bog only gets water from the big pond.



    waterflow.JPG
     
    addy1, Feb 26, 2018
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