Bottom drain revisited

Discussion in 'Pond Archive' started by Bill Stock, Aug 9, 2007.

  1. Bill Stock

    Bill Stock Guest

    I asked this before, but now that I'm SLOWLY getting closer I've got more
    questions.

    I haven't made too much progress over the past month, as I hurt my back
    before it all got started. But Tunnel #1 is about 50% complete and I think
    I've got the kinks worked out of the digging process. So I'm wondering how
    I'm going to insulate the exposed drain pipe. The pipe will be about five
    feet under ground before it enters the filter room and goes into the filter.
    The filter room is mostly below ground and insulated on the outside with
    plastic and styrofoam. But it does have a door to the outside and is proably
    very close to the ambient air temperature. COLD.

    So my options are:

    1) Put a knive valve below ground somewhere near the pond. This is probably
    the best idea, but servicing could be a PITA.

    2) Put an insulated box around the gate valve inside the filter room.

    3) Wrap one of those electric heaters around pipe inside the filter room.

    4) Put a better door on the filter room. Probably not cost effective.

    Any thoughts on the least trouble free solution?
     
    Bill Stock, Aug 9, 2007
    #1
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  2. Bill Stock

    ~ jan Guest

    On Wed, 8 Aug 2007 21:27:52 CST, "Bill Stock" wrote:

    >1) Put a knive valve below ground somewhere near the pond. This is probably
    >the best idea, but servicing could be a PITA.
    >
    >2) Put an insulated box around the gate valve inside the filter room.
    >
    >3) Wrap one of those electric heaters around pipe inside the filter room.
    >
    >4) Put a better door on the filter room. Probably not cost effective.
    >
    >Any thoughts on the least trouble free solution?


    I see trouble free as being inside the filter room.... but, that leads me
    to a question. I always hear things about valve eventual failure.... Does
    this mean leaking, as all over the basement floor, or just the opening and
    closing thereof? ~ jan
    ------------
    Zone 7a, SE Washington State
    Ponds: www.jjspond.us
     
    ~ jan, Aug 9, 2007
    #2
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  3. Bill Stock

    Bill Stock Guest

    "~ jan" wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Wed, 8 Aug 2007 21:27:52 CST, "Bill Stock" wrote:
    >
    >>1) Put a knive valve below ground somewhere near the pond. This is
    >>probably
    >>the best idea, but servicing could be a PITA.
    >>
    >>2) Put an insulated box around the gate valve inside the filter room.
    >>
    >>3) Wrap one of those electric heaters around pipe inside the filter room.
    >>
    >>4) Put a better door on the filter room. Probably not cost effective.
    >>
    >>Any thoughts on the least trouble free solution?

    >
    > I see trouble free as being inside the filter room.... but, that leads me
    > to a question. I always hear things about valve eventual failure.... Does
    > this mean leaking, as all over the basement floor, or just the opening and
    > closing thereof? ~ jan
    > ------------
    > Zone 7a, SE Washington State
    > Ponds: www.jjspond.us


    Not really the basement, but the external entryway (not used) to the
    basement. It has a separate drain, which has been 'tested' during my
    tunneling experiments.

    I suppose two valves would be best, as it would let me service the inside
    valve without draining the pond. But there would still be no easy way to get
    at the outside valve for servicing.
     
    Bill Stock, Aug 10, 2007
    #3
  4. Bill Stock

    ~ jan Guest

    On Thu, 9 Aug 2007 19:51:37 CST, "Bill Stock" wrote:

    >Not really the basement, but the external entryway (not used) to the
    >basement. It has a separate drain, which has been 'tested' during my
    >tunneling experiments.
    >
    >I suppose two valves would be best, as it would let me service the inside
    >valve without draining the pond. But there would still be no easy way to get
    >at the outside valve for servicing.
    >

    Here, we'd just plug the bottom drain & skimmer with a plug to fix valves.
    So inside, where you don't have to dig, if you can keep it freeze free...
    which, if a small insulated space, depending on pump type/size, may keep it
    warm enough.. if you run it during the winter, even a small heater set on
    low would due.

    I know when I was growing up we had several acres for our horses and a
    small pump house, about the size of an elevator room. Irrigating started
    early in the season, often causing ice on cold mornings to form. While the
    pump was running, the pump house was the place to go to warm up after
    moving hand lines. ~ jan

    ------------
    Zone 7a, SE Washington State
    Ponds: www.jjspond.us
     
    ~ jan, Aug 10, 2007
    #4
  5. Bill Stock

    Bill Stock Guest

    "~ jan" wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Thu, 9 Aug 2007 19:51:37 CST, "Bill Stock" wrote:
    >
    >>Not really the basement, but the external entryway (not used) to the
    >>basement. It has a separate drain, which has been 'tested' during my
    >>tunneling experiments.
    >>
    >>I suppose two valves would be best, as it would let me service the inside
    >>valve without draining the pond. But there would still be no easy way to
    >>get
    >>at the outside valve for servicing.
    >>

    > Here, we'd just plug the bottom drain & skimmer with a plug to fix valves.
    > So inside, where you don't have to dig, if you can keep it freeze free...
    > which, if a small insulated space, depending on pump type/size, may keep
    > it
    > warm enough.. if you run it during the winter, even a small heater set on
    > low would due.


    I've been toying with the idea of putting a heater inside the filter and
    diverting the return flow below the surface, but I suspect I would have too
    much heat loss.

    > I know when I was growing up we had several acres for our horses and a
    > small pump house, about the size of an elevator room. Irrigating started
    > early in the season, often causing ice on cold mornings to form. While the
    > pump was running, the pump house was the place to go to warm up after
    > moving hand lines. ~ jan


    LOL, we had a pond too, but with beavers not horses. :)


    > ------------
    > Zone 7a, SE Washington State
    > Ponds: www.jjspond.us
    >
     
    Bill Stock, Aug 10, 2007
    #5
  6. Bill,

    We don't have the cold you do, but we do route a lot of the return
    away from the falls in the winter, especially when there is going to
    be ice...which is not often. Our berm ponds benefit from the thermal
    buffer of the main pond, so we don't cut the flow entirely.

    I suspect it may be difficult to heat a whole pond...how big is yours?

    Jim
     
    Phyllis and Jim, Aug 10, 2007
    #6
  7. Bill Stock

    RichToyBox Guest

    "Bill Stock" wrote in message
    news:...
    >I asked this before, but now that I'm SLOWLY getting closer I've got more
    >questions.
    >
    > I haven't made too much progress over the past month, as I hurt my back
    > before it all got started. But Tunnel #1 is about 50% complete and I think
    > I've got the kinks worked out of the digging process. So I'm wondering how
    > I'm going to insulate the exposed drain pipe. The pipe will be about five
    > feet under ground before it enters the filter room and goes into the
    > filter. The filter room is mostly below ground and insulated on the
    > outside with plastic and styrofoam. But it does have a door to the outside
    > and is proably very close to the ambient air temperature. COLD.
    >
    > So my options are:
    >
    > 1) Put a knive valve below ground somewhere near the pond. This is
    > probably the best idea, but servicing could be a PITA.
    >
    > 2) Put an insulated box around the gate valve inside the filter room.
    >
    > 3) Wrap one of those electric heaters around pipe inside the filter room.
    >
    > 4) Put a better door on the filter room. Probably not cost effective.
    >
    > Any thoughts on the least trouble free solution?


    If the bottom drain line has an upward slope to the filter room, then air
    could be pumped into the pipe, forcing the water back to the pond. This
    will keep the cold away from the water and prevent freezing.
    --
    RichToyBox
    http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html
    Zone 7A/B Virginia
     
    RichToyBox, Aug 10, 2007
    #7
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