Bub's PNW Pond/Stream System Build!

[bubberge]

Ahoy!
I have a pond and stream at my house that was built by the previous owner. When I moved in the pond had been long-abandoned, so over the past year I have rehabilitated it as best I can. As I've learned more about ponds and pond ecosystems, I have recognized several major issues that need to be addressed:

Basic issues
----
* No filtration, aside from my awesome above-ground rubbermaid tub
* All of the waterfalls leak, making it impossible to run the whole system
* The pond is excavated like a cereal bowl, so there are no ledges for marginals or wetland plants. Everything slides into the middle.
* No skimmer or intake bay, so everything that falls in the pond stays in the pond
* Shallow. The lower pond is the largest and the deepest: a respectable 21' wide, but only 14" deep at the center.

Aesthetic issues
----
* This thing is overly man-made looking. Pond aesthetics are subjective, but to me the border stones, perfect roundness of the pools, and the identical small falls between pools all make it feel disappointingly fake.
I planned to excavate and re-build the whole pond system in a way that directly addresses all of the above. After calling 811, I found that two utility lines go under the current bottom pond, so I could not go deeper there -- I had to move the large bottom pond to a new location

Plan highlights
----
* big bog filter. Thinking of a hybrid Ozponds bog filter using upcycled barrels and a plastic culvert, coupled with a 2x4 rectangle of AquaBlox laying on top a la Modern Design Aquascaping. The filter will be at least 6' x 5' and about 3'+ deep of AquaBlox + rock.
* multiple pumps. one lower-volume 24/7 pump will run the bog filter which feeds the lower pond. A possible second pump would run a small bog filter 24/7 at the top of the stream. Modern Design Aquascaping recommends about 90-125 gph per block, which I'll surpass ever so slightly for the big bog with a 1200gph pump. Should be alright. Upper pump would be maybe half of that, and I am planning to sink a 55gal barrel into the ground for that bog. A final higher-volume pump will bypass the bog, it's there only to put lots of water through the whole the stream system. I am considering only turning on the big pump during the day to save 600w or whatever overnight.
* intake bay. Thinking of submerging 4 AquaBlox here so I can shrink the surface area without reducing volume. This would get something like 12" of rock on top of the blocks so it acts as a manual pre-filter
- Deeper! 5' in the middle of the bottom pond. 4' (at least) in the bog filter. around 4' in the intake bay. Lots more resistant to temperature swings.
* Plant shelves and space for marginals
* Re-work edges with boulders and mixed aggregate up to 3-man size rocks
* 2 new falls: at the top of the stream return to the top pond, and one from the bog filter to main pond.

I have attached a couple of scale drawings, where 1 square is 1 square foot.
A. pond system to scale as it existed before any updates
B. pond system plan, version ... 15? who knows. many many revisions

I also attached some before images with the original pond system, and two images taken from the same general location that show before and current progress.
1. Earliest image of the pond
2. Initial state after first full clean
3. Finding that my Rubbermaid Falls™ is not cutting it. Also, all stream ponds are drained because they all leak
4. View from above of the whole system
5. Day one of rebuild
6. Current state (more or less) of rebuild. Notice the temporary relocation of the bridge.

 

[Nancy]

My goodness !! Even pre construction your pond layout is fabulous. Would love to transplant it to my house (minus the flaws of course). I it is very much like I would design (if I were a designer). What is your background? You can draw to scale plans & obviously know more about ponds and how they work (or don’t ) than the average person with a yard … certainly more than I know .
I learned more from your post than most answers to my questions.
Questions: Can I hire you to extend my current pond to look like yours ? LOL. Well … One can always dream. .
How large is your area? (Including ponds, stream, bogs, etc. etc. etc. )
How much area do you need for the bog? Does it need to be in a certain location/elevation relative to the pond? My property property drops off down a hillside (not next to the pond). It is one acre +. Residential. (We built the house a few years ago. I loved your comment about the power lines running directly UNDER the pond ??????????????????????
How will you create the bog? I learned on Garden Forum that it is an excellent & natural & attractive way to filter a pond. Am considering adding one (if I can). I like your idea that the landscaping can look more natural. Our whole yard is “natural “. Defination: native to area, perennial, little upkeep or time spent on plants that are “unhappy “ (unkempt, according to some, wild ).
Do you plan to do all the work yourself?
Or hire a pond building team? Maybe you have children and/or family to help?
If you’re not a contractor& plan to do your whole project by yourself … you must be planning on a 2030/2035 completion date. (LOL ).


The best of luck on a huge, beautiful project. PS. Did you climb on the roof for the overhead photo?

 

[GBBUDD]

Ahoy!
I have a pond and stream at my house that was built by the previous owner. When I moved in the pond had been long-abandoned, so over the past year I have rehabilitated it as best I can. As I've learned more about ponds and pond ecosystems, I have recognized several major issues that need to be addressed:

Basic issues
----
* No filtration, aside from my awesome above-ground rubbermaid tub
* All of the waterfalls leak, making it impossible to run the whole system
* The pond is excavated like a cereal bowl, so there are no ledges for marginals or wetland plants. Everything slides into the middle.
* No skimmer or intake bay, so everything that falls in the pond stays in the pond
* Shallow. The lower pond is the largest and the deepest: a respectable 21' wide, but only 14" deep at the center.

Aesthetic issues
----
* This thing is overly man-made looking. Pond aesthetics are subjective, but to me the border stones, perfect roundness of the pools, and the identical small falls between pools all make it feel disappointingly fake.
I planned to excavate and re-build the whole pond system in a way that directly addresses all of the above. After calling 811, I found that two utility lines go under the current bottom pond, so I could not go deeper there -- I had to move the large bottom pond to a new location

Plan highlights
----
* big bog filter. Thinking of a hybrid Ozponds bog filter using upcycled barrels and a plastic culvert, coupled with a 2x4 rectangle of AquaBlox laying on top a la Modern Design Aquascaping. The filter will be at least 6' x 5' and about 3'+ deep of AquaBlox + rock.
* multiple pumps. one lower-volume 24/7 pump will run the bog filter which feeds the lower pond. A possible second pump would run a small bog filter 24/7 at the top of the stream. Modern Design Aquascaping recommends about 90-125 gph per block, which I'll surpass ever so slightly for the big bog with a 1200gph pump. Should be alright. Upper pump would be maybe half of that, and I am planning to sink a 55gal barrel into the ground for that bog. A final higher-volume pump will bypass the bog, it's there only to put lots of water through the whole the stream system. I am considering only turning on the big pump during the day to save 600w or whatever overnight.
* intake bay. Thinking of submerging 4 AquaBlox here so I can shrink the surface area without reducing volume. This would get something like 12" of rock on top of the blocks so it acts as a manual pre-filter
- Deeper! 5' in the middle of the bottom pond. 4' (at least) in the bog filter. around 4' in the intake bay. Lots more resistant to temperature swings.
* Plant shelves and space for marginals
* Re-work edges with boulders and mixed aggregate up to 3-man size rocks
* 2 new falls: at the top of the stream return to the top pond, and one from the bog filter to main pond.

I have attached a couple of scale drawings, where 1 square is 1 square foot.
A. pond system to scale as it existed before any updates
B. pond system plan, version ... 15? who knows. many many revisions

I also attached some before images with the original pond system, and two images taken from the same general location that show before and current progress.
1. Earliest image of the pond
2. Initial state after first full clean
3. Finding that my Rubbermaid Falls™ is not cutting it. Also, all stream ponds are drained because they all leak
4. View from above of the whole system
5. Day one of rebuild
6. Current state (more or less) of rebuild. Notice the temporary relocation of the bridge.

i can't disagree with the before build looking man made . the rocks look more like copping than do they look like the edge of a pond. it would have a short life if it was in my yard as well. i put together in the showcase portion of this site my build and history of building and maintaining my pond. lessoned learned over the years, info i wish i had been able to find when i was in my planning stages https://www.gardenpondforum.com/sho...r-2023-12-000-gallon-koi-pond-full-build.141/

this video will help with edging and how to make your pond look like the home was built around the pond as it had always been there

 

[Tula]

Lots of pond potential, looking forward to following along.

 

[bubberge]

My goodness !! Even pre construction your pond layout is fabulous. Would love to transplant it to my house (minus the flaws of course). I it is very much like I would design (if I were a designer). What is your background? You can draw to scale plans & obviously know more about ponds and how they work (or don’t ) than the average person with a yard … certainly more than I know .
I learned more from your post than most answers to my questions.
Questions: Can I hire you to extend my current pond to look like yours ? LOL. Well … One can always dream. .
How large is your area? (Including ponds, stream, bogs, etc. etc. etc. )
How much area do you need for the bog? Does it need to be in a certain location/elevation relative to the pond? My property property drops off down a hillside (not next to the pond). It is one acre +. Residential. (We built the house a few years ago. I loved your comment about the power lines running directly UNDER the pond ??????????????????????
How will you create the bog? I learned on Garden Forum that it is an excellent & natural & attractive way to filter a pond. Am considering adding one (if I can). I like your idea that the landscaping can look more natural. Our whole yard is “natural “. Defination: native to area, perennial, little upkeep or time spent on plants that are “unhappy “ (unkempt, according to some, wild ).
Do you plan to do all the work yourself?
Or hire a pond building team? Maybe you have children and/or family to help?
If you’re not a contractor& plan to do your whole project by yourself … you must be planning on a 2030/2035 completion date. (LOL ).


The best of luck on a huge, beautiful project. PS. Did you climb on the roof for the overhead photo?

Hey Nancy, thanks for the kind words!

> What is your background?
I am a software engineer so I don't exactly have a background in any of this, but I tend to get a little extreme when I do something (which you can tell by this post).

> How large is your area?
I don't know the exact surface area of the new pond system yet because it's still in flux, but it's about 45 feet from top to bottom.

> How much area do you need for the bog?
Most resources I've seen online say to account for at least 15% of your pond surface area for the bog. I went a little higher than that because I just want the water to be super clean/polished. I also used 8 Aquablox for the bog and Modern Design Aquascaping (popular youtuber) says to account something like 90-125gph per block. I had a 1200gph pump already which is close enough, so I roughly sized the bog according to that flow rate.

> Do you plan to do all the work yourself?
Mostly, yes. I do have a neighbor with a full-sized backhoe and he helped pull the initial grade for the lower pond, and then took a few big buckets out to help me get down to that 5' depth. The bucket is too big to do any detail work though, so I will be doing that all by hand. Estimate about 15-20sq yd of material moved by hand.

> you must be planning on a 2030/2035 completion date.
I am actually hoping to have both the bog and lower pond lined by Halloween. It won't be pretty, but I just want it holding water before the fall rains really start.

 

[bubberge]

i can't disagree with the before build looking man made . the rocks look more like copping than do they look like the edge of a pond. it would have a short life if it was in my yard as well. i put together in the showcase portion of this site my build and history of building and maintaining my pond. lessoned learned over the years, info i wish i had been able to find when i was in my planning stages https://www.gardenpondforum.com/sho...r-2023-12-000-gallon-koi-pond-full-build.141/

this video will help with edging and how to make your pond look like the home was built around the pond as it had always been there

I saw your pond when lurking on Combat Wombat's build thread. Incredible doesn't even begin to describe it -- I'll be hoping to get about 1/3rd as nice looking as that

 

[bubberge]

Update!

Getting that RPE liner into the bog plus laid down along the stream that will be under the bridge. I briefly thought I would be able to shove the liner under the bridge, but after about 12 seconds it became abundantly clear that was impossible. I had to move the bridge to get it to lay down, which is where everything was in my last post. I'm happy to say that I have that liner laid in enough to trim it (leaving a LOT of excess) which cleared out enough room for me to move the bridge back into position.

As an aside...
Not that anyone here will ever need to do something similar, but I used a reciprocating saw to cut the screws that fastened our bridge to the walkways, then jacked it up with a car jack and slid some 16' 2x10s underneath. Dropped the bridge on those and pushed/pulled it out of the way. Once it was far enough out of the way, car jack to lift it again and put it up on concrete blocks. Reversed that process to get it back into place. Ah, and I re-fastened it by adding new blocking between the walkway joists and screwing into that.

Anyways, I also ran the electrical. Previously it was one UV-resistant 12AWG wire that was more or less direct buried (it was inside a 5/8" poly pipe like what you'd use for sprinklers). To replace that, I put stranded 12AWG in buried 1/2" schedule 40 PVC conduit and ran it to two outlets that are mounted on PT 4x4s. Technically it's not quite to code because there is more than 360º bend in the wire run, but it was way worse before so I am happy with it.

I filled in the rest of the bog with rock, so it's finished all the way to the top now (not pictured). The layers are:
* 9" of big river rock, something like 6-12"
* 9" of small-ish washed rock, about 1.5" to 4"
* 9" of river pebble type rock, about 7/8" to 1 1/4"

And it's back to digging in the main pond.. There are a few contours that I am going to have to adjust in the drawing because the excavator did a little TOO much work, so I fixed up the drawing to match. I'll be working on that again tomorrow!

 

[GBBUDD]

* 9" of big river rock, something like 6-12"
* 9" of small-ish washed rock, about 1.5" to 4"
* 9" of river pebble type rock, about 7/8" to 1 1/4"

while i am a firm believer there is no you must do this to succeed 1 1/4" is not going to polish your water very well unless you have a huge bog with low flow.

i have never seen 1 1/4 recommended as the final layer where did you see this. the standard is 3/8 or 3/4 as the top layer.

very common on a machine pond to get larger,while the hand dug gets smaller with less details

 

[GBBUDD]

I saw your pond when lurking on Combat Wombat's build thread. Incredible doesn't even begin to describe it -- I'll be hoping to get about 1/3rd as nice looking as that

think outside the standard shelves all at one level one width with one size of rock or even the type of rock . i also put together a video on how to hide your edges how to make the pond look natural . i'd recommend it as the authors a good personal friend

 

[bubberge]

while i am a firm believer there is no you must do this to succeed 1 1/4" is not going to polish your water very well unless you have a huge bog with low flow.

i have never seen 1 1/4 recommended as the final layer where did you see this. the standard is 3/8 or 3/4 as the top layer.

very common on a machine pond to get larger,while the hand dug gets smaller with less details

I saw the 7/8 - 1 1/4" recommendation in this YouTube vid at 1:18 from modern design aquascaping (pic 1):

However in the same video, they have a hand-drawn version of the same thing at 2:02 that just says 3/4" rock for the top layer (pic 2):

Upon closer inspection of my own top layer of rock, the supplier calls it 7/8" aggregate but IMO it contains a fair bit of agg under 7/8" so it's probably more like an aggregate mix from 1/4" to 7/8". Stock pic from their site included, I'll add a pic with a tape over it to give a sense of scale once the sun comes up. Maybe I lucked into the right size without knowing it?
Also this rock came absolutely coated in dust and ... wow the water in the filter is so dirty right now. I have an old pump tucked down the snorkel with a kind of PVC shower head on the end and it's circulating water in reverse (top to bottom) to rinse the rock. It feels weird to want pump so much water out into a ditch and re-fill but it's... gross right now.

 

[bubberge]

Oh I also made my own snorkel based on some comment GBBUDD made in CW's build thread (I can't find it at the moment). This is already installed but I have some pictures so I figured I'd share.

It's 12" culvert chopped up and hacked into place. I cut holes in the top to mimic the way the Aquascape centipede works, which you can see in the test fit pic. I covered the bottom of the snorkel and the end of the centipede with EPDM liner zip-tied into place (not pictured). I also added a 2" PVC pipe opposite the snorkel with a 90º and about 6" worth of run into the centipede portion. That is also zip-tied in place.

I had to find a way to make the snorkel connect with the centipede, so to do that I notched out the end of the centipede and cut an oval out of the bottom of the snorkel. A pretty serious amount of leftover material was obstructing the snorkel once I fitted them together, so I cut that off to provide better access for my sump pump (red lines in picture). The centipede does still stick into the snorkel a little bit -- about a 1" lip is still present in there. But the inner diameter of this pipe is 12", so the pump I use for clean-out fits fine with plenty of room to spare.

All of this is sitting on a layer of underlayment just to keep the liner safe. On top of that I have 8 small aquablocks, and the rest of the layers previously discussed. I got a little carried away with making progress and forgot to take pictures of that part.

 

[bubberge]

BTW I intend for that snorkel to end below the water line, so I will have to find an end cap for that so I can keep the upflow from taking the path of least resistance up through the snorkel. I expect to put large rock (edge boulders) on top of the snorkel and pump vault culverts so I need a sturdy solution for the cap. I found this end cap made by a company called Polylok but it's kinda spendy and I'll have to get four of them. Anyone else have any ideas?

 

[GBBUDD]

BTW I intend for that snorkel to end below the water line, so I will have to find an end cap for that so I can keep the upflow from taking the path of least resistance up through the snorkel. I expect to put large rock (edge boulders) on top of the snorkel and pump vault culverts so I need a sturdy solution for the cap. I found this end cap made by a company called Polylok but it's kinda spendy and I'll have to get four of them. Anyone else have any ideas?

The snorkel I leave high a d disguise it so I have a way to monitor the overall health of the bog so if the water in the snorkel rises above the water line in the bog I'll know I'm clogging up and pressure is building and by how much. Trust me when the bog gets to growing the right plants will make it disappear

The centerpede cut into the snorkel is what I did with my 24 inch culvert and the aquaquascape snorkel. It doesn't need to be perfect but the bottom half should stick into the snorkel so sediment can fall into the bottom of the snorkel that I make a foot lower than anywhere in the bog so it acts as a sediment trap.

Modern design knows his stuff . At the time that I built my bog everyone was says 3/8peastone I used 3/4 I know rock compaction being a builder and felt 3/4 would do just as good but last longer.

 

[bubberge]

The snorkel I leave high a d disguise it so I have a way to monitor the overall health of the bog so if the water in the snorkel rises above the water line in the bog I'll know I'm clogging up and pressure is building and by how much.

Dang, this seems like a good idea. In the future I can probably fit a septic riser onto the 12" culvert if I decide to go this route.

 

[bubberge]

Finished final digging a couple of days ago and did a final grading on all tiers this AM. Kinda thinking tomorrow might end up being the day to drop in underlayment and liner. I don't have the boulders for the edges yet but since it's fall now, it's about to start raining every day and leaves are gonna start dropping as well so I feel like I should have the liner in now and fill it half to three-quarter so that it stays in place.