Can you count the number of Koi varieties in this video ?

crsublette

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Can you count the number of Koi varieties in this video ??

[video]

Very nice video I came across on koiphen showing all of the koi varieties.

For ya beginners, important to know koi become quite huge quite fast, possibly up to 18 inches depending on the variety, within just the first couple of years and get as big as 30~36 inches long so they can quickly outgrow your pond. So, don't put too many in your pond! (unless you know what you're doing) :goldfish:
 
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Thanks Charles! I was amazed at how many of them I knew. I still get several of the kikokuryu's mixed up, but the one that really got me was the one labled as a "yellow asagi" ... I thought it was a kin matsuba ... so I was wrong LOL ... but if it is an asagi, why didnt they call it a kin asagi???
 

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Good catch.

I'm still getting familiar with all of the adjectives. So many... many... many... it's just crazy...

Such as " Ki " means yellow and " Kin " means a metallic yellow or gold. :LOL:
 
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and Matsuba's are supposed to be metallic... is my eyesight off, and it isnt? so if non metaliic, wouldnt it be ki asagi then? Wondering if there is a reason they used the word yellow???

Take a shusui for example ... even when it lacks red, a lot of folks still call it a shusui ... yet other places would call a shusui lacking red, a doitsu blue matsuba (or if the skin is super white/PALE blue, maybe a doitsu gin matsuba) .... We have a 5-6" baby that I am calling an Asagi (in the baby group), but it lacks red ... Still been calling it an asagi, as I am seeing them referred to as such, BUT... I ALMOST want to call it a blue matsuba, but it is not metallic, so wont call it that ... its on my keeper list, just dont know WHAT to call it LOL.
 

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I think Matsuba, that is "pinecone", only refers to the scale pattern. If it were a metallic matsuba, then I think it would be called a Kin Matsuba or Gin-Rin or Gin Matsuba or something like that.

I'm not for sure on the "asagi" term. I think "asagi" is just referring to the koi having a full pattern of scales. Kind of sounds like a Matsuba, argh.

I don't know... still learning this stuff...

I do know koi adjectives are often incorrectly given to koi, especially by folk who sell them, and it drives the koi breeders crazy

Here's a short version of a koi terminology list, from Nishikigoi International, with a stamp of approval from a particular koiphen koi breeder.


Koi Terminology


Ai / Blue
Aka / Red
Akami / Red eye in iris
Amime / Net pattern of an asagi or kage
Aoji / Sumi deep, in utsuri line, that gives blue to white field
Aragoke / Armored scales
Ato sumi / Late sumi
Beni / Red
Beta gin / Whole scale gin
Boke sumi / Blurred sumi like kage
Bongiri / No pattern in tail region
Bozu / Bare head
Bu / Size
Chobo sumi / Black we see early on head, skull
Daiya / Diamond gin rin
Dan / Kohaku step of color i.e. nidan, sandan etc.
Danmoyo / Stepped pattern
Doitsu / Koi with scales along the dorsal and lateral lines only
Doroike / Mud pond
Fukurin / skin around the scale giving a scaloped affect
Funa Sumi / Underlying sumi
Gin / Silver
Gin me / White eye rim
Gin-rin / Silver Shinny scales
Goma sumi / Speckled sumi
Gosai / Koi in its fifth year
Gosanke / The group of koi that include Kohaku, Sanke and Showa
Goshiki / Five colored koi
Hachi / head
Hachiware / Divided head, line that divides, also menware
Hada / Skin
Hageshiro / Black koi, white on pectorals and head
Hajiro / Black koi, white pectorals and belly
Hakamahaki / Heavy rear pattern, opposite of bongiri
Hanatsuki / Red down to nose
Hanzome / Only part of scale covered in hi
Harabote / Fat stomach
Hariwake / Like a patchwork
Hashiri sumi / Stripes on showa fins instead of motoguro
Hi / Red
Hiban / Largest hi
Hikarimono / Metallic varieties
Hikarimoyo / Patterned metallic
Hikarimuji / One color metallic
Hitomoji sumi / Y formed on head of utsuri or showa
Hoo-Aka / Hi on cheek
Hoshi / Star development of red
Ichimai sashi / Sashi where the blurring extends a single scale
Ichimatsu / Checkerboard pattern
Ikeage / Harvest
Inazuma / Lightning pattern
Ippin / One of a kind koi
Ippon / One step pattern
Ipponhi / All hi on trunk above lateral
Iroage / Coloring and finishing of koi
Jihada / Skin texture
Jikasen / Koi bred by that breeder, himself
Jitai / A reference to the white ground color or shiro skin or shiroji
Joppa / High class
Jyami zumi / Sesame or goma
Kagamigoi / Doitsu with some scales
Kage / Shadow
Kage sumi / Shadowy sumi
Kaku sumi / Square sumi like on Jinbei or Torazo
Kamisori kiwa / Color edge on half scale, straight edge
Kanoko / Dappled
Kasane sumi / Sumi on red not as stable
Kata moyo / Pattern to side
Kata zumi / Shoulder sumi of sanke to one side /
Keito / traits of a particular breeders koi
Ki / Yellow
Kikei / Deformed
Kin / Gold
Kindai / Modern As in Kindai showa
Kin-rin / Gold scales
Kirekomi / Shiro that cuts into red pattern from the bottom
Kiwa / Back edge of pattern
Kohaku / Red and white koi
Koi / Carp
Kokesuki / Orange scale in hi field
Koke nami / Arrangement of doitsu scales around dorsal(rack)
Kokkaku / Bone structure
Kokugyo / Best in size
Komoyo / Small pattern
Kuchibeni / Lipstick
Kuchi sumi / Sumi on mouth
Kujaku / Peacock
Kumonryu / Dragon
Kuro goshiki / Dark ground Goshiki
Kuroko / 1st culling
Kuro me / Black rimmed eyes
Kutsubera / Horseshoe pattern on head
Kyori / Jumbo
Mado / Window
Madoaki / Window in hi plate
Maki / Wrap of pattern below lateral line, as in showa and utsuri
Makiagari / Wrap of black on pattern underneath
Makisagari / Wrap of red on pattern underneath,?maki
Mameshibori / Light ground goshiki
Maruten / Separate hi on head
Marazome / Scalloped edge kiwa
Matsuba / Pine cone
Matsukawabake / Black and white koi which changes colors, a scaled
Mekazura / Rim of eye. Prefer no hi, blue on sanke, black showa
Mena and kana / Female and male
Menasa / Pattern back on head, not kutsubera
Menkaburi / All red head (hood)
Menware / Dividng line on head of utsuri lineage
Mesu / Female
Motoaka / Hi at base of pectorals
Motoguro / Black at base of pectorals
Moyo / Pattern
Mudagoke / Waste scale outside main on doitsu
Muji / Solid color
Nabe sumi / Poor sumi
Nagaremoyo / Streaming pattern
Narumi asagi / Light asagi
Niban hi / Secondary hi that comes up later
Nidan / Two step pattern
Nimai sashi / Two / Scale sashi
Nishikigoi / Koi!
Nisai / Koi in its second years
Odome / White area after last color before tail
Ogon / Metallic single colored koi
Ojime / Distance between the last dan and the tail
Omoyo / Large pattern
Osu / Male
Otomo / Companion for shipping or tank
Oyabone / Lead ray of major fins, white prefered
Oyagoi / Parents used for breeding
Pongoi / Good grade koi
Purachina / Platinum
Sandan / Three step pattern
Sanmai sashi / Three scale sashi
Sansai / Koi in its third year
Sashi / Leading edge of pattern
Sashikomi or sashi sumi / Sumi sashi or sumi insertion
Sashi sumi / Leading edge of sumi pattern
Selgyo / Adult koi
Shimi / Black speckles on hi
Shiro / White
Shiro muji / All white Koi refers to a Koi which has lost its color
Shiroji / White ground
Sokusen / Lateral line
Soragoi / Blue-gray koi
Sougyo / Mature koi
Tsubo / Well placed Sumi/on white ground
Sumi / Black
Sumi ojime / Pattern stops in the tail tube
Tabisi / Journey
Taiko / Height of koi
Takai / Expensive koi
Tancho / All white koi with red circle (normally) on head
Taragoi / Would be perfect apart from one thing!
Tarai / Blue bowl
Tasukigake / Diagonal cross of pattern across back
Tate hi / Hi above lateral line parallel to dorsal
Tategoi / A Koi which will get better as it grows, a keep koi
Tateshita / A Koi which is not considered as Tategoi anymore
Teaka / Red on pectoral
Tedi / Gloss on doitsu koi
Tegima / Sumi stripes in fins
Tejima / Stripes on pectoral
Teri / Gloss to skin
Tesumi / Black in pectorals
Tobi hi / Hi alone or one or two scale hi spot
Tome Sumi / Last sumi before tail
Tosai / In its first year
Tsubo sumi / Ideal placement of sumi preferably on the white areas
Tsuya / Gloss to skin
Urushi sumi / Best sumi
Wagoi / Scaled koi
Wakagoi / Young
Yogyo / Baby koi
Yondan / Four step pattern
Yonsai / Koi in its forth year
Zappa / Low class


©Copyright Select Nishikigoi International Ltd. 2011
 
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The difference between an asagi and a shushui is the scale pattern ... the shusui is doitsui ...

Gin-Rin/Ginrin (seen it written both ways, dont know which is correct) is when the body scales have a prism like effect (like a diamond or a gem) ... we have a bunch of gin rins ..

a Gin Matsuba, is a metallic white fish, with the black pine cone on it's back if standard scale, or there's the doistui gin matsuba ... that would have a black zipper scale pattern instead... those I have straight;-)
 
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ok - so, I have to ask - what is the difference between the yellow asagi and the ki Matsuba? I thought that the fish they named as the yellow asagi was a matsuba. Also, I thought the shishui had the zipper, regardless of color, while the asagi had the full body pine cone effect.

I have never been very good at koi types. I only know a couple....

The other thing that I have noticed is that as the fish grows and matures, the patterning on the fish can change.
 
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Carolyn22 said:
Also, I thought the shishui had the zipper, regardless of color, while the asagi had the full body pine cone effect.


The other thing that I have noticed is that as the fish grows and matures, the patterning on the fish can change.
The shusui in the video DOES have the zipper ... the doitsu scales (scales only along the spine, although possible to have some on the lateral line as well) ...

On a young fish, the adult pattern IS there, it's just a matter of if it is visible or not;-) For example, if you were looking at a baby shiro bekko (while fish with black spots), while really young, it may appear all white, but you may see hints of "grey spots" ... someone here really spent some time explaining it to me ... the color is always there, but think of it in terms of layers ... as the fish grows, think of the layers becoming thinner, so that the sumi (black) becomes more visible as the fish grows....
 
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I have seen where the color seems to thin out some as the fish matures as well. The colors seem to fade some and blend.

I had not heard that before about coloring being there, but not showing up until the fish matures - that is interesting.
 
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I have heard/read that in some fish, the color can fade as the fish matures, but have never seen it myself. My understanding is usually the color depth improves as the fish grows. That's what I have been seeing in young purchased fish, as well as some who were spawned here this year that I kept to watch grow...
 

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In regards to the color and pattern improving and fading... It all depends on whether the coloring or pattern is "finished". From what I understand, there's a certain way these colors and patterns look "to the trained eye" when they have "finished". "Finished" is that final stage of quality in the color and pattern before it starts to break apart or just does not improve further. I don't know how folk know this, but there appears to be hints to the color and pattern to indicate when it is "finished".

From what I understand, there are two different koi. Koi that are for show and koi that are for enjoyment. Koi that are for show obtain their "finished" color and pattern sooner in age. Koi that are for enjoyment take many many years to obtain their "finished" color and pattern.

It's all about the genetics and especially pond environment.

I think capewind is correct about the layering when the koi is young. I have read that you should more so look for that very young "ugly duckling" with the right distinctions rather than that very young koi with more definite distinctions.

It's like the Tancho mark. If the Tancho mark looks like it is already "finished" when the koi is still quite young, then likely the Tancho is going to start breaking apart, fading, get smaller as the koi gets older to the point of it eventually disappearing rather than improving.
 
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I find it all interesting. My own personal feelings are that my koi are for enjoyment, so not really an issue with me. Just trying to understand the whole thing.
 
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That trained eye is the key LOL. Dedicated breeders have developed the skill, but for the rest of us, it is all guess work.

Most of the pond spawn babies I kept to watch, were quite ugly ... ugly as in yellow with blah brown along their backs, til they started hitting 2-3" in size, then colors and patterns started to develop. These fish dont fit a color pattern, they are just mutts, but it has been neat watching how they developed. From a distance, they look matsuba ... black back, metallic colored heads, but close up, they have the doitsu zipper, but white or silver scales on their lateral lines.

This is one of the ugliest of this group (we have 7 with this pattern), but the one who was caught first to grab a pic. The one that we are keeping has more even/tighter lateral scales, that are completely the silver white in color. This guy was coming up on 4" in size here. Now this group is 6-8" and the black is deeper in tone.
DSCN5711_zpsede14a53.jpg


These next two little guys were about 3" here (definately under 4") and are now about 6-7" and were yellow ... color is deeper now ...
DSCN5767_zpsaece387f.jpg


I'm hoping you are wrong on the tancho marking. I have a cute butterfly baby that I got as part of a group. He (or she) is only 2-3" here. It is now about 4 to 4.25" .. so far, and I know it is wayyy early, the only change is the white has come in better on its face. No change to the orange dot on its face, and no hints of body color (YET) ... I am really hoping it stays as a tancho. Hubby isnt a fan of the standard fin, so I have limited options of getting a decent tancho. I like the butterflies too, but it is highly unlikely to get a good body and color on the butterflies, or atleast for me LOL.
94_zpsdcef8058.jpg


Now this guy, was 4.5" here ... probably about 6" now ... you can see two pale orange marks on his back. I am betting those brighten to the tone of the spot on his face or brighter ... and all of those greyish black markings on his body will eventually go black,
108_zpscd258cfe.jpg
 

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