cant primp pump...picture included

Joined
Mar 15, 2014
Messages
8
Reaction score
2
Hi

Here's what we've got going so far. Can you see anything wrong with this set-up that would prevent priming?
 

Attachments

  • 20140316_182454.jpg
    20140316_182454.jpg
    236.6 KB · Views: 303

sissy

sissy
Joined
Jan 17, 2011
Messages
33,086
Reaction score
15,702
Location
Axton virginia
Showcase(s):
1
Hardiness Zone
7A
Country
United States
has it primed and worked before .Could the back flush flap be working right or could it be stuck.Don't know much about them except what I have seen on you tube .Seems to be the number one thing pond digger and pond hunter talk about
 
Joined
Oct 9, 2012
Messages
6,275
Reaction score
2,817
Location
Plymouth
Hardiness Zone
7a
Country
United Kingdom
It's an inline pump like our own he weight of water comming out through the bottom of the barrel filter should prime it for you , however your UV-C is a little too near the pump to be effective , ours is at least 2ft away from the pump just prior to the pond itself , one question though what is the smaller diameter pipe sticking up out of the pipe prior to the pump please? :)

Dave :)
 
Last edited:
Joined
Mar 15, 2014
Messages
8
Reaction score
2
We tried the pump prior to plumbing by dipping the intake in the water and it blasted water about 20 feet.

Since taking that pic I read about installing a t with a cap. We happened to have one with a spigot and installed. It started right up and we let it run for ten minutes, marveling at our work and telling each other how brilliant we are. Then turned it off

Then tried to restart a few minutes later and back at square one. Not sure what changed but tomorrow's another day

We'll move that one thing (uvc?) And see how that goes

Thank you
 
Joined
Oct 14, 2011
Messages
1,276
Reaction score
661
Location
Cedar Bluffs, Nebraska
Gael,

The outlet pipe from the pump going to the bottom of the barrel could be the source of your trouble. You have it plumbed vertically up coming out of the pump, then horizontally over and back downwards to the bottom of the tank. This causes the higher elevation horizontal pipe to trap air. You should have installed the barrel atop concrete blocks or pads so that the the inlet of the barrel was slightly higher than the outlet of the pump. Then the plumbing would have been all uphill so the air would escape through this route.

That pump does not appear to be a self priming pump to me, although it may be. If it is not self priming, then it requires priming water in the impeller housing cavity. This creates a seal so that the impeller can generate a vacuum on the inlet side and suck the water from the pond or other vessel into the impeller cavity. Otherwise the impeller will be simply spinning in air.

You can remedy this without too much change, even without raising the barrel to a higher elevation (although that would be the recommended and most proper repair).

You can place a TEE fitting in the horizontal pipe, facing upwards at a point nearest to the pumps outlet. Then add a ball valve to the top of the TEE. With the ball valve open, start filling the barrel with water until water exits the valve. The water will push the air out of the pipe and the water will also drain into the pumps impeller cavity. Close the valve and then try to operate the pump. It should then start pulling water from the inlet.

Also, as a recommendation for future installations or for troubleshooting this system now or in the future should need arise...
The check valve should be installed vertically, opposed to laying horizontally as you have it now. It should and probably will work fine set horizontally, but this orientation allows for problems, especially over time when things wear and get coated with minerals or algae, etc. I don't think you need to alter this, but remember this tip if you start to experience problems with water leaking by the check valve and back into the pond.

Gordy
 
Joined
Oct 9, 2012
Messages
6,275
Reaction score
2,817
Location
Plymouth
Hardiness Zone
7a
Country
United Kingdom
Trouble is Gordy its an inline pump , just like the one we have on our own pond and thus it doent need priming at all.
I have a feeling the pipework sticking vertically upwards is at fault , it may well be drawing air down the tube causing the pump to quit .
Our own barrel filter has a right angled pipe at its base connected to a vertical pipes drilled with hundereds of holes to allow water to be taken all the way up the water column it ends about half way up the barrel which is filled with K1 churning about creating helpful bacteria .
Try it without the vertical pipe just prior to the pump that should do the job .

Dacve
 
Joined
Oct 14, 2011
Messages
1,276
Reaction score
661
Location
Cedar Bluffs, Nebraska
Dave,

That vertical pipe is on the outlet side of the pump and the check valve is on the inlet.

That pump is an impeller (rotary vane) pump .
Such pumps are all "in-line" pumps and the inlet will always be on the front of the impeller housing (in line with the motor axis) where it sucks the water into the impeller. The rotary vanes of the impeller then throw the water outwards through a channelized duct to the outlet on the top of the impeller housing via centrifugal force. So the pump cannot suck air in through that pipe, it is pushing water out through it.

It looks very much like a Simer brand or a Simer build for a pond supply company under that pond supply companies name.

Gordy
 

DrCase

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Dec 29, 2007
Messages
4,400
Reaction score
788
Location
Arkansas
Hardiness Zone
7a
I would take that spring check valve out and try running it
If it works with out it, i would put it back on the outlet side of the pump
 
Joined
Oct 14, 2011
Messages
1,276
Reaction score
661
Location
Cedar Bluffs, Nebraska
I would take that spring check valve out and try running it
If it works with out it, i would put it back on the outlet side of the pump

DrCase,

Do you think that this pump is a self-priming model? Removing the check valve from the inlet side will only work if this is a self priming pump.

If this is a standard water pump and the check valve is removed from the inlet there will be no way to prime or keep the priming water in the pump. Any priming water that is added would simply flow right back into the pond. You would have to be very persistent and have an anger management level about the same as someone who has had a labotomy to get through it without a lot of cussing and swearing. With the check valve on the inlet side of the pump, when the pump is turned off, the head pressure from the pump side pushes against the diaphram or the plunger in the check valve and assists the spring to close the valve. Once the valve is closed, the water within the pump remains within the pump so that when you restart the pump, it is already primed.

I have several possible scenarios here to explain why this pump is not operating properly.

1] It is a self priming pump but the pump is defective and cannot pull sufficient vaccum to prime itself.

2] It is a standard pump that needs to be primed, but there isn't any or there is insufficient priming water in the pump cavity.

3] The pipe leading from the pond to the inlet of the pump has leaks and is drawing in air and therefore the pump cannot build up sufficient vacuum to draw the water from the pond up to the pump.

4] The check valve is installed backwards.

5] The check valve is defective and stuck in the closed position.

I think we should start with the make and model of the pump so that we all know what we are dealing with instead of guessing or assuming.

Gael, what is the make and model of your pump? Is it brand new? It appears to be.

Is there an arrow on your check valve and which direction is it currently pointing (to the pump or to the pond)?

Gotta start somewhere and these are the most obvious places to do so.

Gordy
 
Joined
Oct 9, 2012
Messages
6,275
Reaction score
2,817
Location
Plymouth
Hardiness Zone
7a
Country
United Kingdom
Dave,

That vertical pipe is on the outlet side of the pump and the check valve is on the inlet.
Gordy if this is set up the same way as ours then it is drawing watre out of the filter then which ill be primed from the water in the filter , there is no need for a vertical pipe but I still have a feeling its close proximityto the inline pump is causesing it to draw air valve or no valve.
Apart from the vertical pipe the UV-C needs to be further away from the pump
thats all .

Dave
That pump is an impeller (rotary vane) pump .
Such pumps are all "in-line" pumps and the inlet will always be on the front of the impeller housing (in line with the motor axis) where it sucks the water into the impeller. The rotary vanes of the impeller then throw the water outwards through a channelized duct to the outlet on the top of the impeller housing via centrifugal force. So the pump cannot suck air in through that pipe, it is pushing water out through it.

It looks very much like a Simer brand or a Simer build for a pond supply company under that pond supply companies name.

Gordy
 
Joined
Oct 9, 2012
Messages
6,275
Reaction score
2,817
Location
Plymouth
Hardiness Zone
7a
Country
United Kingdom
Our inline pump is fed by water from the filter water has weight behind it as we all know so its going to seek the path of least resistence which is the exit ing pipe from the filter.
The inline pump then pumps the water through it , past the UV-C and out into the pond
Itf this filter is set up the same way as ours then water is drawn out of the pond, up then into the filter then down through its bottom up into the next filter then down through its bottom up to the next etc etc
An inline pump we refare to as dry pumps because they channel the water through them and dont sit on the bottom of of the pond

Dave
 
Joined
Oct 14, 2011
Messages
1,276
Reaction score
661
Location
Cedar Bluffs, Nebraska
Our inline pump is fed by water from the filter water has weight behind it as we all know so its going to seek the path of least resistence which is the exit ing pipe from the filter.
The inline pump then pumps the water through it , past the UV-C and out into the pond
Itf this filter is set up the same way as ours then water is drawn out of the pond, up then into the filter then down through its bottom up into the next filter then down through its bottom up to the next etc etc
An inline pump we refare to as dry pumps because they channel the water through them and dont sit on the bottom of of the pond

Dave

I understand what you are saying Dave. What you are referring to as an "in-line" pump is one which is external to the pond, but "in-line" with the water flow through the pipe or inserted in the "water line" versus a submersible pump which is placed inside the pond water and draws the water through a prefilter structure and pumps it out of the pond.

Submersible filters don't require priming. Well, actually they do, but since they are submerged in water that takes all the fun out of priming them. :)

In-line (or non-submersible) pumps can be self priming, but most articles are not. Self priming pumps have very close tolerances between their vanes and the pump cavity walls or they may be diaphram type pumps or piston style pumps.

The majority of the lesser expensive pumps are not self priming. You have to do so manually. They are the least expensive in general, untill you get to "size matters"

Gordy
 
Joined
Oct 9, 2012
Messages
6,275
Reaction score
2,817
Location
Plymouth
Hardiness Zone
7a
Country
United Kingdom
Ours is just an impellor on the end of a motor Gordy and apart from the colour diffeence is no ddifferent than the pump in his photo which I blieve to be non priming

Dave
 

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments. After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.

Ask a Question

Members online

Forum statistics

Threads
30,781
Messages
508,574
Members
13,042
Latest member
lucaryan

Latest Threads

Top