I'm just wondering, how do you clean fish poo out of a pond? In my aquariums I siphon it out, is it the same in a pond? I'm new to fish-keeping in my pond. 
Cleaning bottom of pond?
- Thread starter Shannonpwns
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It turns to benign mulm and sediments quite fast.
Techniques vary as to what a pond might do with it, from leaving it to become a benign clay over time, to extravagant mechanical filtration
Regards, andy
http://www.flickr.com/photos/21940871@N06/
http://swglist.wordpress.com/
Techniques vary as to what a pond might do with it, from leaving it to become a benign clay over time, to extravagant mechanical filtration
Regards, andy
http://www.flickr.com/photos/21940871@N06/
http://swglist.wordpress.com/
I have a bare bottom pond with a slight slope to a deepest point. My thinking was whatever solids don't get pumped into the filter will settle in the deep end. I net the area every month or so and there isn't much there.
sissy
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do the same and use a swimming pool net and make sure there is clean quilt batting in the baskets so all the fine stuff that gets stirred up gets caught before it goes back in the pond in case there is something toxic in it .
slakker
AKA Mike
was wondering the same thing myself... was debating between a DIY vacuum to just stirring it up and let it run off by filling it to the point of overflow in my skimmer filter
Okay sounds simple enough! Thanks everyone!
crsublette
coyotes call me Charles
Here's a thread for ya to read. Excessive Mulm.... Repercussions? Everyone suggests that, when there is noticeable mulm build up, then they vacuum or stir it up so their filtration can filter it out or they significantly increase the volume of plants.
So, I would be careful when suggesting mulm is benign, which suggests the process that creates the mulm is benign as well and the process is definitely not benign. The process of creating the mulm will definitely deprive the water of carbons, oxygen, and other minerals and increase the dissolved particulate residual in the water. Also, the mulm creates an environment for a multitude of harmful organisms and bacteria.
Google, "old pond syndrome". As the volume of mulm increases, the more problem will be created for new fish added to the pond due to the "old pond syndrome".
Quarantining. One primary reason, called "old pond" syndrome, to quarantining new fish with a companion fish, which the companion fish is from the "old" pond, is to improve the new fish's immune system to pathogens that have accumulated in the pond due to the fact the pond has aged, as indicated by an accumulation of various organisms and pathogens in its water. So, when new fish have never encountered these ailments, then they are more likely to get sick and the new fish are easier to treat when in a quarantine tank.
Depending on where you live, whether you live near water or if your region is more of a desert, then this will determine if there will be any organisms and aquatic creatures that will transplant to your pond water to help keep the pond mulm clean.
In regards to mulm, only difference between an aquarium and outdoor pond is that you likely will encounter a much higher volume of mulm in the pond, depending on your environment.
So, even with ponds, there are vacuums or netting to be done.
Goldfish and koi carp are quite hardy due to how they adapt and can survive and appear happy in terrible environmental conditions, but I would not suggest a dirty environment should be the recommendation.
Here is a hyperlink that shows an alternative of how a pond can be built to make it easier to reduce the volume of mulm and to make it easier to clean up the mulm. Bottom drain, plumbing, and pump advice.
There are many versions of pond vaccuums out there and alternatives to taking out the mulm. Here's a nice explanation of some ideas to vacuuming the pond, Waterbug's DIY Pond Vacuums. I have been using the Oase Pondovac 4. There are many good DIY options out there as well. Here is an interesting DIY air lift pond vacuum.
So, I would be careful when suggesting mulm is benign, which suggests the process that creates the mulm is benign as well and the process is definitely not benign. The process of creating the mulm will definitely deprive the water of carbons, oxygen, and other minerals and increase the dissolved particulate residual in the water. Also, the mulm creates an environment for a multitude of harmful organisms and bacteria.
Google, "old pond syndrome". As the volume of mulm increases, the more problem will be created for new fish added to the pond due to the "old pond syndrome".
Quarantining. One primary reason, called "old pond" syndrome, to quarantining new fish with a companion fish, which the companion fish is from the "old" pond, is to improve the new fish's immune system to pathogens that have accumulated in the pond due to the fact the pond has aged, as indicated by an accumulation of various organisms and pathogens in its water. So, when new fish have never encountered these ailments, then they are more likely to get sick and the new fish are easier to treat when in a quarantine tank.
Depending on where you live, whether you live near water or if your region is more of a desert, then this will determine if there will be any organisms and aquatic creatures that will transplant to your pond water to help keep the pond mulm clean.
In regards to mulm, only difference between an aquarium and outdoor pond is that you likely will encounter a much higher volume of mulm in the pond, depending on your environment.
So, even with ponds, there are vacuums or netting to be done.
Goldfish and koi carp are quite hardy due to how they adapt and can survive and appear happy in terrible environmental conditions, but I would not suggest a dirty environment should be the recommendation.
Here is a hyperlink that shows an alternative of how a pond can be built to make it easier to reduce the volume of mulm and to make it easier to clean up the mulm. Bottom drain, plumbing, and pump advice.
There are many versions of pond vaccuums out there and alternatives to taking out the mulm. Here's a nice explanation of some ideas to vacuuming the pond, Waterbug's DIY Pond Vacuums. I have been using the Oase Pondovac 4. There are many good DIY options out there as well. Here is an interesting DIY air lift pond vacuum.
I have been looking into bottom drains with a settlement tank, but so far I just net out the bottom in spring and fall. I normally end up with about 3 gallons of muck, dump it in the garden and till it in.
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I do the same, but for some reason have very little muck. I did the deep end, got about 1/3 of a gallon after doing half the pond, so quit, it was not worth the effort or time. I have not mucked out the pond since spring of 2012.
Mmathis
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I scoop the bottom with a pool-skimmer net, like Sissy said. Have thought about getting a vac (I really bothers me to have all that crud), but #1, to get the one I want costs too much, and #2, I read mixed reviews for just about every brand.
On the one old pond, 40'x20', a heavy load of waterlilies and 6 adult koi for ten years produced about 6 cubic foot of clay, silt in the deep, 'sump' area intended to gather mulm and sediments.
About 0.25% of pond volume
Regards, andy
http://www.flickr.com/photos/21940871@N06/
http://swglist.wordpress.com/
About 0.25% of pond volume
Regards, andy
http://www.flickr.com/photos/21940871@N06/
http://swglist.wordpress.com/
I use whatever is easiest. For very small ponds a simple minnow net from the pet store, scoop around on the bottom couple of times a week kept ponds surprisingly clean. Bigger net like a swimming pool leaf rake for larger ponds works good. Larger ponds I like a venturi type vac because it doesn't remove any water. I built my own to use pond water for power rather than a garden hose.
I also used a suction type vac which removed water. However I mainly used that for cleaning ponds that hadn't been cleaned in several years. That gives all that waste time to decompose down into fine stuff that the venturi can't remove. Using the venturi 2-3 times a month in summer kept the pond surprisingly clean and suction type vacuuming was needed maybe once a year.
And of course when the pond called for it a complete bottom drain system. Pretty pricey, and still a fair bit of work. These are really only needed imo on ponds feeding fish 10 times a day with an auto or on demand feeder. People promoting the dangers of crap on the bottom of a pond generally don't make a distinction between lots of uneaten food/poo and slow decomposition of algae.Adding pounds of food per week to a pond can create a serious problem without quick removal. But most Water Garden type ponds can handle the slow decomposition of algae and the build up of muck because muck is more like soil. Good for Wildlife Ponds, but less good for Water Gardens and no good for Koi Ponds.
I also used a suction type vac which removed water. However I mainly used that for cleaning ponds that hadn't been cleaned in several years. That gives all that waste time to decompose down into fine stuff that the venturi can't remove. Using the venturi 2-3 times a month in summer kept the pond surprisingly clean and suction type vacuuming was needed maybe once a year.
And of course when the pond called for it a complete bottom drain system. Pretty pricey, and still a fair bit of work. These are really only needed imo on ponds feeding fish 10 times a day with an auto or on demand feeder. People promoting the dangers of crap on the bottom of a pond generally don't make a distinction between lots of uneaten food/poo and slow decomposition of algae.Adding pounds of food per week to a pond can create a serious problem without quick removal. But most Water Garden type ponds can handle the slow decomposition of algae and the build up of muck because muck is more like soil. Good for Wildlife Ponds, but less good for Water Gardens and no good for Koi Ponds.
JohnHuff
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I have a smallish pond and all I've been doing is using a Sears WetDry Vac to vacuum the bottom once a year. I also experimented with using the siphon from my aquarium. That actually works but since the volume of my pond is 16x that of my aquarium, it'll take about 50x longer, so I just did a little bit for a bit of fun.
crsublette
coyotes call me Charles
There are gradations to absolutely everything we do in our pond and this includes the organics we allow in the water.
As mentioned in the thread I hyperlinked, the folk in it that took the more "natural" watergarden approach, as indicated by them involved a lower fish density and lower feed volume and increase plant density, then cleaning the pond's bottom is less of a concern. Although, I think it is dangerous and lazy thinking to suggest this as if it were some rule written in stone. These organics left behind are still quite complex for bacteria and organisms to decompose, places additional unnecessary strain on the water, and encourages other organisms and pathogens to thrive.
The reason we use mechanized and organic biological filtration is due to the fact that, once the inorganic chemicals (i.e., ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, etc) are created and absorbs into the water, then the only way we can remove these chemicals is due to the filtration as accomplished by bacteria, organisms, plants, and algae. I gaurantee, if we were capable of "vacuuming" these inorganic chemicals out of the water, then this would be a common procedure as well, but it is just not that easy unlike removing the more complex organic debris before it converst into these inorganic chemicsl, which results in mulm where more organisms and pathogens are allowed to thrive and some will be for the better. It is by far easier to remove complex organic debris out of the water through debris mechanical filtration, vacuuming, and easier to remove floating debris before it sinks; so, this is why we remove it through our instruments. Now, Nature has her own instruments through the aquatic critters, but this does not circumvent the quite natural processes involved in decomposing the debris by the aquatic critters consuming the debris, creating additional inorganic chemical byproducts, while consuming some carbons and minerals in the water, and then finally producing mulm. Yes, even aquatic critters produce a residual of inorganic chemicals and tax the water after consuming the more complex organic debris and, only then at the end of this costly process, then we have mulm so to be home for more of these critters both good and bad. Folk really need to look at the entire picture. There are many wonderful and nasty events that Nature allows to happen as well.
For us, in our context, It is a matter of what is reasonable and practical to control.
If your pond is having inorganic chemical pollution problems, such as an overabundance of ammonia and nitrite and there's a low fish density and low to zero additional feeding and no runoff entering the pond, then the only other option is to remove the debris and mulm out of the water since these elements are truely not benign due to the process involved to decompose and create it.
So, it is like I usually say... Pond maintenance depends on how the pond is built, where it is built, and the desires of the owner.
Some folk most definitely do need to clean the bottom of the pond. Some folk most definitely do not have such a need to clean the bottom of the pond.
Personally, if I knew spending more money into the system equates to less personal time on pond chores so I can spend this time on enjoying the hobby, fish, and other stuff, then this is a win win and money well spent.
Just be aware of the caution signs, learn how to read them when or if they occur, and learn how to properly react after they occur.
As mentioned in the thread I hyperlinked, the folk in it that took the more "natural" watergarden approach, as indicated by them involved a lower fish density and lower feed volume and increase plant density, then cleaning the pond's bottom is less of a concern. Although, I think it is dangerous and lazy thinking to suggest this as if it were some rule written in stone. These organics left behind are still quite complex for bacteria and organisms to decompose, places additional unnecessary strain on the water, and encourages other organisms and pathogens to thrive.
The reason we use mechanized and organic biological filtration is due to the fact that, once the inorganic chemicals (i.e., ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, etc) are created and absorbs into the water, then the only way we can remove these chemicals is due to the filtration as accomplished by bacteria, organisms, plants, and algae. I gaurantee, if we were capable of "vacuuming" these inorganic chemicals out of the water, then this would be a common procedure as well, but it is just not that easy unlike removing the more complex organic debris before it converst into these inorganic chemicsl, which results in mulm where more organisms and pathogens are allowed to thrive and some will be for the better. It is by far easier to remove complex organic debris out of the water through debris mechanical filtration, vacuuming, and easier to remove floating debris before it sinks; so, this is why we remove it through our instruments. Now, Nature has her own instruments through the aquatic critters, but this does not circumvent the quite natural processes involved in decomposing the debris by the aquatic critters consuming the debris, creating additional inorganic chemical byproducts, while consuming some carbons and minerals in the water, and then finally producing mulm. Yes, even aquatic critters produce a residual of inorganic chemicals and tax the water after consuming the more complex organic debris and, only then at the end of this costly process, then we have mulm so to be home for more of these critters both good and bad. Folk really need to look at the entire picture. There are many wonderful and nasty events that Nature allows to happen as well.
For us, in our context, It is a matter of what is reasonable and practical to control.
If your pond is having inorganic chemical pollution problems, such as an overabundance of ammonia and nitrite and there's a low fish density and low to zero additional feeding and no runoff entering the pond, then the only other option is to remove the debris and mulm out of the water since these elements are truely not benign due to the process involved to decompose and create it.
So, it is like I usually say... Pond maintenance depends on how the pond is built, where it is built, and the desires of the owner.
Some folk most definitely do need to clean the bottom of the pond. Some folk most definitely do not have such a need to clean the bottom of the pond.
Personally, if I knew spending more money into the system equates to less personal time on pond chores so I can spend this time on enjoying the hobby, fish, and other stuff, then this is a win win and money well spent.
Just be aware of the caution signs, learn how to read them when or if they occur, and learn how to properly react after they occur.
As a pond owner with a bottom drain I would recomend them to anyone they are really good at what they do and the bottom of our pond is clear at all times .
The muck basically passes down into the bottom drain and is deposted in a vortex style filter which we clear when we do our regular 30-40% waterchanges this then goes via a side valve direst to drain and is no hassle to do.
If you decide to upgrade to a larger pond setup make sure you seriously look at this option , it saves time and trouble.
Many people tend to shy away from these drains because it means cutting a hole in the middle of the new pond liner but if done correctly its quite easy to do its getting the seal done correctly thats the hardest part.
You could always ask someone who's done one before to help you with it if you wish to .
Taking a photographic record of this operation is a must ready for the next time you u
rgrds
Dave
The muck basically passes down into the bottom drain and is deposted in a vortex style filter which we clear when we do our regular 30-40% waterchanges this then goes via a side valve direst to drain and is no hassle to do.
If you decide to upgrade to a larger pond setup make sure you seriously look at this option , it saves time and trouble.
Many people tend to shy away from these drains because it means cutting a hole in the middle of the new pond liner but if done correctly its quite easy to do its getting the seal done correctly thats the hardest part.
You could always ask someone who's done one before to help you with it if you wish to .
Taking a photographic record of this operation is a must ready for the next time you u
rgrds
Dave