Confused about waterfall tubing and freezing temps

[sparkshooter]

I've been lurking these forums for some time and am currently knee-deep in a backyard wildlife pond build (no fish). We built a large mound/berm to hold a gravel bog w/PVC manifold, which then waterfalls into the main pond. We've just got the liner down and are starting to think about filling/rocking/figuring out pump placement. We have pretty basic needs (move water from place A to place B) and are using an aquaforce 2700 pump that sits directly in the pond.

My question: we live in a cold place and will not be running the waterfall over the winter. What does that mean in terms of ensuring that our PVC bog manifold and the waterfall supply tubing isn't damaged? We know we need to take the pump out in the winter, but I'm less clear on how to deal with the rest of it and whether we should be placing it someplace that can be removed entirely or what.

All help appreciated.

 

[mrsclem]

You don't want to drain the bog in the winter. Let it freeze. You can leave the pump in the pond low enough that it won't freeze in ice. Make sure when you shut down your pump that the bog doesn't drain due to backflushing.

 

[j.w]

@sparkshooter
Glad I don't have to deal w/that cold weather but I always send people to view @callingcolleen1 's posts as she lives in cold, cold Canada and maybe she can give you some tips on surviving the cold w/your pond: https://www.gardenpondforum.com/threads/my-pond-runs-all-winter-zone-2-3.10570/ She doesn't have a bog tho so listen to those that do!

 

[addy1]

Welcome to the forum!

My setup is a external pump, I yank it in the winter. The bog is set up so it does not drain down in the winter, stays full of water and freezes.
The pond I put in a pond breather, to keep some gas exchange going on. Then done until spring. I enjoy the non running water time.

 

[sparkshooter]

Welcome to the forum!

My setup is a external pump, I yank it in the winter. The bog is set up so it does not drain down in the winter, stays full of water and freezes.
The pond I put in a pond breather, to keep some gas exchange going on. Then done until spring. I enjoy the non running water time.

Thanks!! Our bog will also not drain in winter based on how it is being constructed, but I'm sure it will freeze solid. Sounds like this is totally fine? (I guess because the ice pressure can escape through the holes/slits in the manifold pvc ?)

When you say you "yank" the external pump, what does that mean for the tubing from the pump to the bog? Do you leave it in place or disconnect on both ends and bring inside? Sorry for my dumb questions...

 

[brokensword]

Thanks!! Our bog will also not drain in winter based on how it is being constructed, but I'm sure it will freeze solid. Sounds like this is totally fine? (I guess because the ice pressure can escape through the holes/slits in the manifold pvc ?)

When you say you "yank" the external pump, what does that mean for the tubing from the pump to the bog? Do you leave it in place or disconnect on both ends and bring inside? Sorry for my dumb questions...

if your bog is higher than ground level (ALL of it) and you don't have a decent amountof soil on all sides (min of 2' with 3' being better) it might indeed freeze solid which might in turn mean the pipes will crack. Would still work as your pipes already are cut but it would be better if the bog was also under the ground at soil level so it can benefit more from the earth's natural heat. You don't want the bog to go dry.
addy is using an external pump which is better stored inside during the winter. A submersible pump can stay in the pond, below ice level. If you're using flex pvc, just be sure there's no 'traps' in the line; the water will run back to pond level and be okay.

 

[addy1]

Thanks!! Our bog will also not drain in winter based on how it is being constructed, but I'm sure it will freeze solid. Sounds like this is totally fine? (I guess because the ice pressure can escape through the holes/slits in the manifold pvc ?)

When you say you "yank" the external pump, what does that mean for the tubing from the pump to the bog? Do you leave it in place or disconnect on both ends and bring inside? Sorry for my dumb questions...

lol I guess I should be more explanatory. I remove the pump for the winter. I use those fernco couplings, you can remove the piping without a issue. I leave my pipes open some drain some don't. So far in 10 years even with some cold winters , cold for us, they have never cracked. All of the pvc tubing stays in place. The only thing removed and drained is the pump. I store it outside in a shed, (gets a lot of spiders living in it) In the spring hook it up and plug back in.

 

[poconojoe]

Just to clarify....
You want to keep the water in your bog for the winter.
Any hardy plants will just freeze into the ice and come back in the Spring. If you empty the bog, the plants dry out and die.

What they are saying is.... if you turn off your bog pump and the pump is lower than the bog, the water might get siphoned out of the bog, back into the pond.

To prevent this, just open a connection, preferably at a high point, to break the siphon. Check valves are not great with ponds, as they can clog up and malfunction.

 

[sparkshooter]

Thanks everyone, this is all super, super helpful - I hadn't even contemplated the siphon issue. I'm getting all the fittings for the bog manifold today and will make sure to factor in a removable connection to prevent this issue.

As a life-term cold weather resident, I'm so trained to be worried about freezing pipes (and we've had our share of issues over the years...) that I wanted to make sure to think this through. The good news is that unlike with a house, there's nothing especially catastrophic even if something does happen to pond tubing the first winter.

 

[brokensword]

Thanks everyone, this is all super, super helpful - I hadn't even contemplated the siphon issue. I'm getting all the fittings for the bog manifold today and will make sure to factor in a removable connection to prevent this issue.

As a life-term cold weather resident, I'm so trained to be worried about freezing pipes (and we've had our share of issues over the years...) that I wanted to make sure to think this through. The good news is that unlike with a house, there's nothing especially catastrophic even if something does happen to pond tubing the first winter.

you don't necessarily need a removable part; just drill a 1/4" hole on top of the highest pipe entering your bog--that will break the siphon when power is off and have next to no effect on flow to the bog when the pump is in operation.

 

[GBBUDD]

drill a 1/4" hole on top of the highest pipe entering your bog

THAT is one wy another is a cheap vacuum breaker found here
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0069KCZO...=osi&th=1&psc=1&keywords=2 Pvc Vacuum Breaker
depot and lowes both have them and they are reliable .as they are the same as a check valve with one major differance. as the power goes out the check valve falls closing off the pipe but you need a good deal of back pressure in order to close off the flow with a check valve. A vaccum breaker works in reverse as the power is on it throws pressure in the pipe in the way of the water and it hits the flapper and pushes it shut and sealing off the pipe. when the power goes out the pressure drops and the flapper falls opening the pipe breaking the vacuum for cheap money

 

[poconojoe]

That vacuum breaker seems like a good idea, especially the fact that it does it automatically.

Other options are a union that you can open when needed or a Fernco rubber coupling. The union being the better of these two in that it can withstand much more pressure.

I currently have a Fernco coupling on mine which has held with no problem. I have a union sitting on my workbench to replace the Fernco, but I just haven't gotten around to it.
My pump is a 3600 gph with 1-1/2" outlet.

 

[brokensword]

That vacuum breaker seems like a good idea, especially the fact that it does it automatically.

Other options are a union that you can open when needed or a Fernco rubber coupling. The union being the better of these two in that it can withstand much more pressure.

I currently have a Fernco coupling on mine which has held with no problem. I have a union sitting on my workbench to replace the Fernco, but I just haven't gotten around to it.
My pump is a 3600 gph with 1-1/2" outlet.

dayum! All these folks dissing my hole in the head, err, pipe idea....

 

[GBBUDD]

No dis.. i just have bad luck with holes and plants and algae growing and blocking them ... yes i could have left that as an open very open ended statement

 

[poconojoe]

No, no diss...just stating other options.