Could this be carp pox !!

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Hi Dave
Thanks for getting in touch, ive been working far to hard :( and trying to sort a wedding out...........stress.....:facepalm:

Ive been keeping an eye on the fish and have defo not seen any blood, the lump on the top lip is still there but havnt got a proper look at the lower lip. I tried to catch the fish a few days ago to have a proper look but it was to fast and i didnt want to stress all the fish out trying for to long. Its eating food of the surface like all the others and is still grazing on algea.
Thanks for the advice I`ll try and get a proper look over the weekend as any algea has now died off and blocked my filters up......!!:mad: on the plus side the water is now crystal clear :)

Cheers
Willo
 
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Great news willo when you get a good look at that lower lip it may be an idea to chart any growth take a photo every six months or so and compare them to the original photo you posted if it is active you'll see some theres growth if not things should hopefully stay the same .
Tumor can be funny old things a the best of times but then at least you'll have a record to look back on :happy:

Dave
 

fishin4cars

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Dave, what do you think about adding heat if it can be done? carp pox is usually seen more when water temps are low, if the fish could be kept in water say 70-75 degrees maybe even a little higher do you think that it might retreat the pox so that a medication might help on the secondary infection? (I am thinking and agreeing with you and Val's thinking it could be bacterial and possibly internal.)
 
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Dave, what do you think about adding heat if it can be done? carp pox is usually seen more when water temps are low, if the fish could be kept in water say 70-75 degrees maybe even a little higher do you think that it might retreat the pox so that a medication might help on the secondary infection? (I am thinking and agreeing with you and Val's thinking it could be bacterial and possibly internal.)

Larkin Koi pox can go hand in hand with papillomas which are both would you believe it viral by nature however they have a low level of infection with maybe just one koi in your pond catching it .
Koi are the chief in their own recovery seemingly growing out of papillomas as the get older.
This infection is primarily around the fins on the leading edges
Koi pox as you have correctly stated is temperature related which allows the koi to mount an immune responce to the infection by an increase in water temperature of around 10c is normally sufficient but take care when implementing the treatment say 1c every two days .
Papillomas equally respond to warmer water but at an even higher temperature of 24-25c again care must be taken when implementing this treatment too however they may present themselves as a redish pink tumor,these need to be taken off by surgery from a veteranerian
Many koi keepers basically tend to let it run its course through the winter months letting mother nature do the heating up of the pond .
In all our 27 years eve only ever seen one koi that has had OTT infection giving it problems with ridding itself of koi pox.
It our young friend Matt's Matsuba which had the pox from nose to tail so sad it was a beautiful koi too but even in summer he still had it on this koi we think it had auto immune problem.
Some time ago now a number of dealerships in the UK did a trial with a treatment you painted on to the koi pox and it supposedly made them fall off but we waited for the results in the BKKS and sadly nothing more was heard of this treatment so we can only surmise it was a big flop :(
As to secondary infections that shouldnt be a problem sadly in willo's case the problem on the bottom lip may have a blood supply and its a tumor hence her keeping a very close weather eye on it in future , as they have been known to get so large that the koi needs to be euthanized .
An internal tumor koi seem to handle quite well living with it for years before becomes a huge problem our Shusui has one on her right rear side we first noticed it four years ago now and shes happy as larry at the moment but if it starts to grow in size and compromises her then we'll do right by her putting her painlessly to sleep.


Dave
 
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I think today I've come across what has to be the weirdest koi pox case I have ever come across unless it isnt pox I admit both Val and I at first thought tumor, but my friend Lee who first asked Val and I to look into it gives us this history :-

The koi has this what looks to be a pink fleshy growth on its side which in the summer months doesnt exist on his koi , but as the temperature drops to that of 10c and bellow then regular as clockwork out pops this pinky growth however this is were things get weird this pinky looking growth is the only thing that grows , unlike normal koi pox which as we all know grows all over the koi .
My other thought would be that of Papillomas but its growing in the wrong place to be that nor when you really look at it does it look like normal pox
Do we have any takers Meyer Perhaps you may have come across something like this before but to be honest after 27 years in this hobby I'd have thought I'd have come across it before now


Lee's koi.jpg


PM'd you about it on the off chance my friend
Dave
 
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Many thanx for your imput there Meyer I really have to agree what you say that this is a possible mutation of the carp pox virus though this is the first change I've ever come across but thats what virus's are all about isnt it really .
Mind you I was shocked to learn that the CyHV3 (KHV), at last count, had mutated into 18 variants with mortality rates now ranging from 20% to 100% depending on the variant..
Last I heard the motatlity rate was running at 80%, with the 20% survival rate .
This is an Apt lesson we can use here and thats never buy koi from some guy on eBay that you have never met before , its always best to buy from reputable dealerships PDKA otherwise you may just end up with KHV in your pond.
Here in the UK the Dealers have formed an association against KHV.
This is the March of KHV across the UK there are reports everywhere nowadays of outbreaks in the uk :-

http://www.fishhelpline.co.uk/health/khv.html

Would you happen to know just how many outbreaks you have had in the US this year and what are your thoughts on the Israeli KV3 vaccine thats been developed , last I heard there were worries about koi excreating the virus even after vacination ?


Dave
 
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callingcolleen1

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Good grief that sounds very bad that Koi Pox, never heard of it before here in Canada. I think these diseases are mostly seen in warmer areas of the world. I think myself that the warmer water temperatures are to blame for much of the diseases and parasites as I never heard of people in ice cold Canada getting these diseases. In the future somebody will develop a "pond Chiller" to chill the water those living in warmer climates, and simulate a natural winter period and thus keep much of these diseases at bay.
In all my 24 years of wintering my koi in Ice cold Running water outside all year, I have NEVER seen anything like that and feel very bad for those whose koi are infected with it. It really looks horrible and to watch the fish die slowly must be very hard...
 
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Good grief that sounds very bad that Koi Pox, never heard of it before here in Canada. I think these diseases are mostly seen in warmer areas of the world. I think myself that the warmer water temperatures are to blame for much of the diseases and parasites as I never heard of people in ice cold Canada getting these diseases. In the future somebody will develop a "pond Chiller" to chill the water those living in warmer climates, and simulate a natural winter period and thus keep much of these diseases at bay.
In all my 24 years of wintering my koi in Ice cold Running water outside all year, I have NEVER seen anything like that and feel very bad for those whose koi are infected with it. It really looks horrible and to watch the fish die slowly must be very hard...
I dont want to worry you and all Colleen but bellow is part of a report on KHV on its Geographical location reading through it you will see Canada as one of the countries infected wih it :-


Geographical distribution
Following the first reports of KHVD in Israel and Germany in 1998 and detection of KHV DNA in tissue
samples taken during a mass mortality of carp in the UK in 1996 (Bretzinger et al., 1999; Perelberg et
al., 2003), the geographical range of the disease has become extensive. The disease has been spread
to many countries worldwide, predominantly through the trade in koi carp, before the current
knowledge of the disease and means to detect it were available. It is now known to occur in, or has
been recorded in fish imported into, at least 28 different countries. In Europe KHV has been detected in
many countries across the continent (Bergmann et al., 2006; Haenen et al., 2004; Novotny et al.,
2010). Most recently KHVD outbreaks have been reported to the OIE from Romania, Slovenia, Spain
and Sweden. In Asia, China (Hong Kong), Chinese Taipei, Indonesia, Japan, Korea (Rep. of),
Malaysia, Singapore (in fish imported from Malaysia) and Thailand (Haenen et al., 2004; Ilouze et al.,
2010; Pikulkaew et al., 2009; Sano et al., 2004). Elsewhere, South Africa, Canada and the USA
(Garver et al., 2010; Haenen et al., 2004; Hedrick et al., 2000) have reported occurrence of KHVD. It is
likely that the virus is present in many more countries, but has not yet been identified or reported.

This is why its so vitally important we all QT our fish nowadays once its in your pond, your koi worst case senario are 80% dead (any survivors carry the virus and as such need Euthanizing
Here in the UK we have to report any outbreaks to the Government not so sure if this is the case in Canada (perhaps you can help by finding out what the protocol of an outbreak in Canada by asking your Government their policy ?
There is also a Goldfish Herpes Virus which has a kill rate of 40% amongst goldfish
But as Meyer pointed with KHV "that maybe more or less depending on which strain", that any of your Canadian goldfish are carrying at the time of infection :(
Its a sad fact that these viruses came about because of the intensive methods that are employed in breeding and growing the fish on for sale to the fish keeping public
Dave
 
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sissy

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yep and thanks Dave .I needed time away to get really caught up and afraid hubby got sick again .Sister needed her kitchen done also .I have iron in my water and when I redid my pond and put water straight from the well and did not use the water from my house filtered water I had to treat it because of the high iron content .I also added a U.V. to my pond just in case .I thought I would never use one but wanted to protect my fish since it was a lot of new water
 
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Sorry to here about your Hubby sissy I hope things have turned for the better now ?

Dave
 

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