couple questions for the experts

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Im looking to build my 2nd pond. My current pond is a smaller 500 gallon in ground pond, mainly a yard accent piece with some fish and plants. I love it but want a bigger one, mainly to house some bigger fish.

Im trying to design a exterior above ground pond my goal is around 1,200 gallons mainly because above ground for the reason it can be moved if drained, though will be heavy, still moveable. Im thinking of building a frame around 4x4x14-16 feet long but the pond would only extend 10-12 feet and having 4 feet sectioned off to house a filter and extended above the pond to have a waterfall, ive seen many inside tanks, quarantine tanks and stock takes build like this and a couple bigger outside tanks and no it can be done I have a few questions about liner, filtration and pumps.

Im leaning towards a 2x6 frame constructions just like exterior walls on a new house (house framer was my last job) and i know wood likes to bow, and unless strengtend i know it will bow so im thinking a long threaded rod with bracing between the studs basically in the center span of the pond would help, the base will be a 2x4 construction layered twice with a 3/4 plywood sheet and the walls will be built on that and using lags and other anchors, secured on that. I was thinking of using cement board inside for the walls so any moisture wont damage it much. Also planning on 2 or three shelfs, one a foot away from the surface, another 2 feet away and the 3rd 3 feet down for plants and each would be 1 to 2 feet in shelf depth and those will help increase the wall strength by tying them together.

I will install a bottom drain to a filter, still undecided on the filter. I like the idea of a skippy filter. Any sugestions on that would be great! Also plan on having a box pre filter go to a pump that goes to a uv light that goes back to the pond for a aerator like affect (i have a uv light and a pump for back up on the shelf)

Now the last thing, the liner. I honestly dont feel i need a 45mil epdm firestone liner. Thats whats used in my in ground pond and i feel i could use a 30 mil thick liner and be ok. I know the firestone liner has a better warranty but theres no rocks, no branches in the box and i wont be adding rocks to the pond. Ive actually been looking at a homedepot/lowes liner but i ust found out its 14.5 mills thick and i feel i would have the replace that pretty soon, though its cheap. Would you have anyy suggestions on a liner and a place to purchase it? if not i found a seller that has there firestone liners for .80 cents


Thank you for the awesome forum, Ive been lurking last couple of days and finally joined!

Mitchell

edit, will be adding a sketch to the post as soon as i get this darn scanner working.
 
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Hey, I was a framing carpenter in a previous life too.:cool:
What part of the US do you live in? How would your pond frame handle winter freezing?
The frame sounds fine, I don't know how a thinner liner would stand up to abrasion from the cement board though.
What are you going to make the shelves out of?
2000 gph pump I would recommend. A bog too, if you're so inclined.

Welcome. btw.
 
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Just west of Portland Oregon. Worst winter we had recently was just a couple years ago and it was high teens. Insulation between the studs would be a must and so would be a underpayment for corners and abrasion of the board. I a sheet of plywood would cover the outside with some tyvek material then some cedar fence boards and some accent trim would be out side of that.

The bog filter, I was actually thinking about that for the water fall. It would be a foot or so taller and would be a square above and would be above the filter.


I should note that this will get morning shade and afternoon soon since it's on the west side of the house under the eeve. I will in the next couple days time how much sun it will get. I'm guessing 4-6 hours.
 
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Interesting idea. It will be fun to see this progress.

My thought on the liner - you're going to a lot of work and some expense to build this. How much would you save by using a cheaper, thinner liner? Is it worth it in the long run to potentially have a problem with the liner? Maybe with your particular design it wouldn't be hard to replace if you do have issues, but then you will have paid the cheaper price twice. Certain things just aren't worth skimping on. Go cheaper on the things that are easy to replace if you have to save money on the project. I would rather use a cheaper pump that may need to be replaced in a couple of years than have a liner degrade and have to tear the whole pond apart to replace it. Just one ponder's opinion...
 
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If the floor is going to be on grade, how are you going to handle the moisture from the ground? Venting the frame? If no venting, and if using treated lumber and plywood for the frame, you should still expect some mould buildup under there.
Frost heaving might be a concern too. Make sure you have very good drainage under the pond frame.
If you're building some bulkhead stye wooden shelves, the threaded rod may not be needed. Attaching the shelves to the walls will probably make the frame stiff enough.
I'm not sure how effective any wall insulation would be, it depends on how long your cold spells are. Insulation just slows down the transfer of heat, not prevent it, right?
Tyvek also reacts with cedar, breaking down the Tyvek. you would need an air space between the siding and the Tyvek.
Your pond may survive winters better if your could use landscaping material sloped up along the walls. That would shed rainwater away from the base and provide better insulation than fiberglass batting. You would still need to provide proper moisture protection for the wall.
You sure you don't want to partially sink the pond?:)
Another member here just did a mostly above ground pond addition.
You can see some pictures of her construction here:
https://www.gardenpondforum.com/threads/ponds-in-canada.9124/page-105
 
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I probably will go with 45mil epdm, figured I'd ask for an opinion. I've actually got a pretty inexpensive debris handling pond pump that works amazing in my little pond, probably overkill for it but not enough to cause problems.

For water on the ground, I'm thinking I will dig it down and place gravel and level it out and place pressure treated lumber for the base with a couple vent holes and screen covering them with a plywood top then frame.

I'm open for any opinions and suggestions.

I thought about sinking it, but it would still need to be atleast 2 feet above ground and have a gate. We have a couple furry animals. One im not worries about, the other is a old english sheep dog who can get quite warm in the summer or likes baths when she gets punished. If I built it slightly buried. It would be with 4x4 pressure treated would driven to ground with long rebar and the then framed with small walls with some anchors of some sort.
 
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The only other thing I thought I would mention is that if the floor of your pond is above the frost line in your area, your pond won't benefit from the heat of the ground during the winter. Your design will kind of be like a pond on a raised deck. By digging down a bit further, you could save the work and expense of the framed floor. Still keep the wall frames high to protect the dogs. To hold the wall frames in place you could drill and drive some 1/2" rebar into the ground through the base plates.
I used regular landscape fabric for my underlayment.
 
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The frost line in our area is 7inches. So not horrible. A two foot above ground structure with a 2 feet below ground Dug out might be best.

Bottom drain to a filter back to pond and then another pump to a bog waterfall. Or should it be bottom drain to a filter or skimmer then pumped to a bog filter waterfall. I really like the bottom drain for many obvious reason and the skimmer is a neat idea and I like the look and ease of a bog filter waterfall.

I've been reading through the posts on here and gathering info from them but there is still a couple questions I have, as usual. Haha. I'd rather do it right. My first one though I think it's a good job wasn't the best planned and lacking some things. I really wish I put a water fall with it but didn't plan that well, oh well we all make some mistakes. DOH!
 
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callingcolleen1

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Sounds like you hardly have any winter to speak of, sometimes our frost can go down 6 feet like a couple years back when we had horrible long winter that year.

I have mine dug down and built up. The benifit to digging pond half way down is that the ground will keep water cooler during long hot summers.

I just finished a new upper pond that is 5 feet deep, over three feet dug down and a couple feet above the ground. I used heavy 8 foot pressure treated posts and pounded them together with 6 inch Ardox spikes. That baby is not going no where and frame is solid lIke a rock. I can walk on it or sit on it and it is so solid with the big 4 inch wide 8 foot long square Posts. No need to have spikes in the ground to hold that structure together.

The older previous upper pond next to new upper pond was made with 8 foot x 6 foot landscaping Ties and then pounder together with 5 inch spikes. That structure is about 20 years old now and still very solid. I glued rocks and moss to hide the frame. I will finish the landscaping and hide the new upper pond frame in the same way eventually. The new upper pond is 8 foot by 8 foot and 5 feet deep.
20150424_195154.jpg
 

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