Couple Questions

[Jagsfan]

My pond has been running for about 3 weeks now. its 1000 gallons and dimensions are 9x5x3. I added 14 goldfish(shubunkins and comets) after 10 days. i know thats quick, but i was adding bacteria beforehand to try and help. I have done 3 water test sessions and the results are as follows.
July 5-
PH- 7.5
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Phosphate 0-0.25(hard to tell the difference)
KH 8
GH 7

July 12
All above results are identical

July 25
Above results are identical except KH which is now 7

I also tested Ammonia and Nitrite only around July 17 and both were 0.

I went out of town on 7/18 and got back today. I had lost one fish a couple days before i left and im pretty sure it was a swim bladder issue. The fish was laying on its side on the bottom and when it tried to swim it would swim upside down and without any real control. Unaware of swim bladder issues is goldfish i immediately assumed " too late at this point" and euthanized the fish. i was afraid it would swim behind some rocks and die and then cause water issues. Thats when i did the Ammonia and Nitrite tests and both came back at 0. I came back from vacation today and one fish was floating and 2 others seem pretty lethargic. I did the tests and everything is good(results above). I really cant imagine it being an oxygen problem as i have a waterfall in one corner, 1 bubbler in the middle and 2 bubblers in the far corner from the water fall. When i first got the fish i started feeding once a day. only a small amount, throwing in a couple pieces at a time until they lost interest(usually 5 minutes or so) I assumed since the pond was so new and there wasnt really algae formed yet that they may need to be feed more often until they had algae to graze on. After the first fish died and i read up on swim bladder issues, i changed to every other day for feeding. When i was on vacation i had a neighbor come over a feed every other day, small amounts. I also have a motion activated camera on the pond to see about any other creatures causing mischief and nothing has..... yet. As for plants, i have 3 blue flag iris, 10 water hyacinth, 10 water lettuce which has shot off an additional 5-6 smaller plants, 1 small arrow arum, 1 small lizard tail, and 2 small pickerel rush. The pond is usually in half sun half shade and water temp is usually 75-80. OTHER than adding the fish as quickly as i did, does anything jump out as why the fish may be dying? I ordered them from next day koi and all seemed healthy and active straight away. Also, is feeding every other day too much?

 

[CometKeith]

Hi. I’m sorry you are having problems with your fish and new pond. I would recommend to read up about the nitrogen cycle. I know your readings are coming out okay but something doesn’t seem right. I would lay odds your pond has not properly cycled and that is why your fish are getting sick. 14 fish in 10 days is way too much if your pond is not properly cycled. A new pond can easily take 4-6 weeks to cycle. That’s is why people recommend to start out with a very small number of fish. I would find a better way to test your pond parameters and stop feeding and do some water changes to lessen the ammonia and nitrites in your pond.

 

[Jagsfan]

Hi. I’m sorry you are having problems with your fish and new pond. I would recommend to read up about the nitrogen cycle. I know your readings are coming out okay but something doesn’t seem right. I would lay odds your pond has not properly cycled and that is why your fish are getting sick. 14 fish in 10 days is way too much if your pond is not properly cycled. A new pond can easily take 4-6 weeks to cycle. That’s is why people recommend to start out with a very small number of fish. I would find a better way to test your pond parameters and stop feeding and do some water changes to lessen the ammonia and nitrites in your pond.

I know about the nitrogen cycle. i kept saltwater aquariums for many years. I was hoping that adding bacteria on a regular schedule would do the trick (i did that with the last tank i kept and it worked great). As for the testing goes, im using the API pond master kit. Is there a better way to test?

 

[CometKeith]

I know about the nitrogen cycle. i kept saltwater aquariums for many years. I was hoping that adding bacteria on a regular schedule would do the trick (i did that with the last tank i kept and it worked great). As for the testing goes, im using the API pond master kit. Is there a better way to test?

Hi. I have used the API test kit and it worked well for me so I don’t know the answer. Some pet stores will test your water so that’s another alternative. Personally I don’t feel the bacteria you add is the same as what naturally builds up in the biofilter. I have been keeping ponds over 10 years and have not used bacteria from a bottle. I don’t think there are any shortcuts to letting it cycle naturally. Just curious… I reread your initial statement about the problem. I didn’t see anything about there being a biofilter or a bio mat as part of your setup. Do you have one? The bacteria will need a place to colonize. Also I’m sure you probably know this but chlorinated water will kill the bacteria. One other issue I should bring up is with a new pond the liner hasn’t had a chance to build up any type of algae coating. Algae will help against ammonia and nitrate. That is why everyone recommends to fully cycle a brand new pond before adding many fish.

 

[Jagsfan]

Hi. I have used the API test kit and it worked well for me so I don’t know the answer. Some pet stores will test your water so that’s another alternative. Personally I don’t feel the bacteria you add is the same as what naturally builds up in the biofilter. I have been keeping ponds over 10 years and have not used bacteria from a bottle. I don’t think there are any shortcuts to letting it cycle naturally. Just curious… I reread your initial statement about the problem. I didn’t see anything about there being a biofilter or a bio mat as part of your setup. Do you have one? The bacteria will need a place to colonize. Also I’m sure you probably know this but chlorinated water will kill the bacteria.

The pressurized filter i have has bio mat in it, plus i put a layer of underlayment on top of the liner and covered with a thin layer of gravel to give more places for the bacteria to colonize. Your probably right about the bacteria in a bottle. Since it worked with my last saltwater setup i was hopeful, but that seems to be the most logical issue. I just dont know why the testing isnt showing anything. I know that in the aquarium hobby, API tests are considered garbage and highly unreliable, i wonder if i can use another brand like Red Sea and get more reliable results even though its a pond and not salt water. As far as chlorinated water, i have a drip system from a barrel that has an opening at the top to allow the water gas off. it drips about 15-20 gallons a day and i dont dechlorinate that water. i assumed the small amount of water going in along with the time that passes should have very minimal chlorine. I have used a hose to fill a couple inches when we didnt get rain for over a week and i did dechlorinate that water.

 

[brokensword]

The pressurized filter i have has bio mat in it, plus i put a layer of underlayment on top of the liner and covered with a thin layer of gravel to give more places for the bacteria to colonize. Your probably right about the bacteria in a bottle. Since it worked with my last saltwater setup i was hopeful, but that seems to be the most logical issue. I just dont know why the testing isnt showing anything. I know that in the aquarium hobby, API tests are considered garbage and highly unreliable, i wonder if i can use another brand like Red Sea and get more reliable results even though its a pond and not salt water. As far as chlorinated water, i have a drip system from a barrel that has an opening at the top to allow the water gas off. it drips about 15-20 gallons a day and i dont dechlorinate that water. i assumed the small amount of water going in along with the time that passes should have very minimal chlorine. I have used a hose to fill a couple inches when we didnt get rain for over a week and i did dechlorinate that water.

be aware too that many municipalities now use chloramines, not chlorine, which can take up to 30 days to gas off. Probably not your problem as you're not adding much at any one time, but thought I'd mention it.

Were it mine, I'd definitely think about bog filtration as it'll add more oomph to your system re filtering. Too, have you done water tests on your supply water? Might be something there you don't realize.

Are you getting any form of NPS (new pond syndrome) in the form of free floating algae? I'd expect you would. If not, there might be a reason for that which might also be affecting the fish. Hard to imagine algae not growing in your pond, especially at first.

I'd do the tests and confirm your water is not the issue. I'd also increase the aeration, just because it can't hurt but can help. There might have been a compatibility problem for the fish as in old water to new water. I ordered some koi early this spring and lost 4 of the 11 and I think it was because I didn't acclimate them as long as I should have (I have well water so pH, hardness, etc might/probably was different than the water they shipped in). Gf and koi can adjust but you need to give them time. Also, check your pH in the morning, noon and night; the results will vary. The swings might be problematic; keep tabs on this and see if there's any correlation.

Just some ideas.

 

[Jagsfan]

be aware too that many municipalities now use chloramines, not chlorine, which can take up to 30 days to gas off. Probably not your problem as you're not adding much at any one time, but thought I'd mention it.

Were it mine, I'd definitely think about bog filtration as it'll add more oomph to your system re filtering. Too, have you done water tests on your supply water? Might be something there you don't realize.

Are you getting any form of NPS (new pond syndrome) in the form of free floating algae? I'd expect you would. If not, there might be a reason for that which might also be affecting the fish. Hard to imagine algae not growing in your pond, especially at first.

I'd do the tests and confirm your water is not the issue. I'd also increase the aeration, just because it can't hurt but can help. There might have been a compatibility problem for the fish as in old water to new water. I ordered some koi early this spring and lost 4 of the 11 and I think it was because I didn't acclimate them as long as I should have (I have well water so pH, hardness, etc might/probably was different than the water they shipped in). Gf and koi can adjust but you need to give them time. Also, check your pH in the morning, noon and night; the results will vary. The swings might be problematic; keep tabs on this and see if there's any correlation.

Just some ideas.

Thank you for the tips. I checked our water reports before filling the pond and its only chlorine. I would love a bog, but at this point i cant do that. I do have space for it, i think, and that could (will) be a future endevour. So i have started getting some algae, it started about 10 days ago, mostly on the rocks, not making the water green. i have seen the fish graze on it some and thats why i cut feedings back to every other day. Im sure i can probably cut back even more and plan to. I havent tested the source water, but thats a good idea.

 

[brokensword]

at least put some floaters in your pond as they'll help balancing the system as a whole. The goldfish shouldn't bother either water hyacinth (perhaps more this one than the wL) or water lettuce much, and they both can reproduce rapidly, to the point you'll be composting soon enough. They are great for filtering the water column and gives you shade. Personally, I wouldn't think giving a bit of food would really hurt but as long as they're not thin, they should find enough to eat, esp if you DO add some plants.

 

[Jagsfan]

at least put some floaters in your pond as they'll help balancing the system as a whole. The goldfish shouldn't bother either water hyacinth (perhaps more this one than the wL) or water lettuce much, and they both can reproduce rapidly, to the point you'll be composting soon enough. They are great for filtering the water column and gives you shade. Personally, I wouldn't think giving a bit of food would really hurt but as long as they're not thin, they should find enough to eat, esp if you DO add some plants.

yeah, i have 10 WH and 10WL now. the WL actually has already sprouted off an additional few small plants

 

[brokensword]

yeah, i have 10 WH and 10WL now. the WL actually has already sprouted off an additional few small plants

you should be in good shape; just wait it out!

 

[CometKeith]

The pressurized filter i have has bio mat in it, plus i put a layer of underlayment on top of the liner and covered with a thin layer of gravel to give more places for the bacteria to colonize. Your probably right about the bacteria in a bottle. Since it worked with my last saltwater setup i was hopeful, but that seems to be the most logical issue. I just dont know why the testing isnt showing anything. I know that in the aquarium hobby, API tests are considered garbage and highly unreliable, i wonder if i can use another brand like Red Sea and get more reliable results even though its a pond and not salt water. As far as chlorinated water, i have a drip system from a barrel that has an opening at the top to allow the water gas off. it drips about 15-20 gallons a day and i dont dechlorinate that water. i assumed the small amount of water going in along with the time that passes should have very minimal chlorine. I have used a hose to fill a couple inches when we didnt get rain for over a week and i did dechlorinate that water.

I’m not certain it’s really okay to drip the chlorinated water in. Can you add a little bit of declor in the barrel until your bb gets settled in? I used to be super careful and would add decor to a 5 gallon bucket of water and let it sit fora day before adding the water to my pond. I had to stop doing that because my wife was unhappy with the orange buckets of water in our yard! Another thing chlorine can hurt the gills on a fish. Sorry if I’m saying things you know. Sometimes I add more detail in case someone new is reading the threads to learn what to do. I like to spray water in my pond with a fine mist from my garden hose so the chlorine gas dissipates. Sometimes I both spray and add decor. I’m sure your readings are wrong. The only explanation for the fish dying is poor water quality. Did you call any local pet stores to see if they will test your water? I agree with all of brokensword‘s suggestion btw. Extra water movement will not hurt. Also I don’t know what kind of additives are in the bacteria you are adding but normally algae builds up until the pond cycles. When it cycles most the green will go away. I really don’t like adding any kind of chemicals except for declor. Once you add them is too hard to figure out how to reverse something if you decide it’s not wanted.

 

[Laaf]

Maybe the water is fine and the fish were sick or the food was bad? There are stories of some batches of fish food killing fish? Goldfish are pretty hardy and can survive in drainage canals and swampy algae infested water. Your described water sounds like they should have survived. I am sorry for the fish deaths. It is stressful.

 

[CometKeith]

Maybe the water is fine and the fish were sick or the food was bad? There are stories of some batches of fish food killing fish? Goldfish are pretty hardy and can survive in drainage canals and swampy algae infested water. Your described water sounds like they should have survived. I am sorry for the fish deaths. It is stressful.

Hi that’s interesting about the food, but did you notice it’s a brand new pond? It’s much more likely the pond hasn’t cycled and there is a build up of either ammonia or nitrite or both. Most people recommend to cycle a pond for at least a month before adding more than one or two small fish. Adding 12 fish after 10 days is way too much.

 

[Laaf]

Yes I noticed it was a new pond. But people add goldfish to just filled aquariums with no plants and they survive. I waited 48 hours with my small concrete lined pond before adding goldfish......and they all survived. The tested water parameters on this new pond don't sound toxic to me. I would add some inexpensive feeder fish to see if it's the water. If they survive......it's a gift to them to let them stay, and shows the water is not the issue.

 

[Jagsfan]

I just wanted to update anybody interested on whats been going on with my pond since this post started. Of the two lethargic fish, one died and the other recovered within a couple days of the original post. I also cut feeding back to every 3 days. The fish seem to be doing fine now and have been since the lethargic fish recovered. Water tests keep coming back perfect which makes me a little suspect in the accuracy of them, but i guess it is what it is. I also decided to treat the top-off water in the 50 gallon drip barrel instead of counting on it dissipating. Its a very easy thing to do and i was trying to eliminate all possible variables that could cause issues. The marginal plants all have shown good growth, but my floating plants have started to struggle a little. So currently i have 11 of the 14 original goldfish and I think (hope) im past the initial cycle period. I can see algae growing on the rocks, but the water is crystal clear.