Current pond / Planned expansion

[Minnow]

Good day everyone.

It has been a while since I posted here.

Early last year (April 2011), I installed a puddle (small pond) about 6' x 3'. The depth of the pond varied as it went from 2' deep to shallow to allow the birds to bathe. So an average depth of 1.5' is my guess. Basically, a 200 gallon liner pond.

We started with five feeder fish, five snails, some plants and a 600+ gph pump.

We now have over 20 fish and many more snails at various stages of growth and quite a bit of plants.

TIME TO EXPAND! :razz:

The current pond area is 11' x 11' and allows for some plants and maneuvering in the area. It is fenced in to keep the little one and the hound out of the pond area.

I have been given the go ahead from the boss (the wife) to expand it. The new area I can build in is 20' x11', so quite an upgrade!

I have some stipulations that I imposed myself to keep it simple.

1. For the 20' length, I would like 4' to 5' on each side to allow for landscaping and pathways and I would like the same for the rear portion. (If needed, I could reduce the pathway area in the rear of the pond to 3' instead of 5'...)
2. In addition, I am going to raise the pond a bit to give it the illusion of being bigger and because the area I will be expanding into has some tree roots (dogwood). The total height I expect to be raising it is in 8" to 12" height range.
3. I will be adding a bog garden for natural filtration.

With these stipulations in mind, the allowable area for the actual pond is now 10' x 6'. Still quite an area, but I need to compensate for the retaining wall, right? I would be using the standard precast block from a Lowe's or Home Depot measuring 12" wide x 8" deep.

Question # 1! Any recommendation on how much room between the liner and retaining wall block is needed? If it is 2', then that drastically decreases the pond size to 6' x 2', or smaller than what I have now! But if there is no need for space between the liner and the wall, then the pond size would be would be 8.5' x 4.5'.

So, with a potential 8.5' x 4.5' x 2.5' pond area, I am sure I can get a decent pond and bog filter in there.

Question # 2! Can I re-use the old liner to make the bog filter which would flow into the new pond?

I am some what hesitant to use two separate liners due to leakage.

Any advice?

Thanks!

 

[Craig58]

Hi Minnow,

I'm also in SE PA area.

I'm not sure what you mean concerning space between the liner and precast block. It's more about how you intend to finish the wall and hide the top parts of the liner. For instance, you could might want a landscaped area between the edge of the pond and the wall, which makes the wall look more like a garden retaining wall rather than a pond wall. Or you might want to maximize the pond and have the wall liner right up to the block wall with flat caps on top. Or you might want a bit of both.

It's kind of your call. The height of 8-12" isn't that much and the pond volume not that great so a basic retaining wall construction should suffice. You can view my current pond that is under construction on my showcase in the link below. It is also slightly out of the ground like you are thinking about. It might give you some ideas.

If you want to use the old liner for a bog I wouldn't see a reason not to. I think the key is how you decide to have the bog drain into the pond. I think the greater the fall off, the less issue for a leak. If you overlap the liners enough, and do a proper seal, you shouldn't have much of an issue as there wouldn't be a lot of pressure on the seam. But of course so much depends on the design, water flow, desired effect, purpose, etc... Of course, a single liner is always going to give you less worries!

Craig

 

[dieselplower]

If i am reading what you wrote correctly, i think you can run the liner right up the back side of the block. Fold the liner over the block at the height you want and then put one layer of thin block on top to hold and hide it.

 

[FountainMan]

Your plans sound like mine. Right now I've got an 8' X 4' trying to go 12' X 20' which is a bit like your situation.


I'm watching this thread.

 

[Minnow]

Ok.... Been a busy winter.

I semi-opened the pond this past weekend.

Here is what I did : dropped in my little pump on Saturday afternoon and by Sunday evening the impeller cover / filter was clogged up! :surprised:

So, I cleaned out the intake, replaced it and added the Pond-zyme with barley to help break down some of the yuck. I figured that would happen.

But, I did not bring up the plants yet as it is still the first week of April!

Oh, and I do have a vote on a bigger pond from the fish, there are many and they are bigger!!!!


Now, back to the expansion plans...

If I wanted to shift/relocate the pond over a couple feet, but keep it the same general size, what is my best course of action in terms of doing so? How do I move the fish, snails, plants and water?

I was thinking of a 100 gallon stock tank as a temp setup. Then move some water over to it, transfer the fish, snails and plants, and let things settle to ensure everything was moved.

Then add the remaining water to spare trash cans, etc to drain the pond, then place the remaining deposit into buckets and into compost bin.

The next decision is to get a new liner or re-use the old one. I would get a bigger liner to accomodate a bog garden as a natural filter. I can use the old one and put a small bog garden in, but it would take from the pond area.

Looking for some sage advice here.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Minnow]

If you want to use the old liner for a bog I wouldn't see a reason not to. I think the key is how you decide to have the bog drain into the pond. I think the greater the fall off, the less issue for a leak. If you overlap the liners enough, and do a proper seal, you shouldn't have much of an issue as there wouldn't be a lot of pressure on the seam. But of course so much depends on the design, water flow, desired effect, purpose, etc... Of course, a single liner is always going to give you less worries!

Craig

Hi Craig!

That is the part I am concerned about the most!

The old liner being used as a bog garden would be super as I could fill it up easily with a bunch of plant life! But having it properly flow over the side and into the lower pond, well, I am having trouble with understanding how to properly do that.

Do I need to physically seal the two, or can I have the old one overlap the new one?

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[addy1]

My stream has many pieces of liner as it works down the slope, switch backs, drops etc (steep slope) The over lap areas are just that an over lap, if it is about an 6-8 inch drop I have not worried about sealing, I make sure the top liner goes way past the bottom liner, at least by a foot. A shallower drop I stick some pl roofing goop between the two pieces of liner.

 

[Minnow]

addy, thx for the reply!

Now I have another question...

How would I go about channeling the water from the bog to the pond?

 

[addy1]

I am not sure of your layout. For my stream I channeled water by digging a 8-10 stream bed, lined it, used rocks to hide the liner. Used the dug out dirt to make stream banks. My bog is behind a wall, about 1-2 foot above the pond, depending on water level, it water falls back into the pond via a flat rock.

This is mid summer, it grows a lot.

This is a test stream flow using black plastic My biggest fight was the slope, a small level constantly in use to make sure the banks where level

 

[HTH]

What kind of liner do you have ?

 

[Minnow]

Flexible liner...


So, I was talking about the pond area with the wifey last night. Looks like a whole new liner.

We are going for a rough size of 8' x 4' x 2'. With shelves and the bog (inside pond liner), that will make the actual pond gallon-age about 350 gallons.

And I am glad, the pump was backed up again this morning!

 

[sissy]

pond calculator will help you .Liners right now are really cheap .I just saw them at ollies here.They also had bigger ones if you have an ollies near you
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[capewind]

Sissy... are you really that comfortable using only a 20 mil liner? I was trying to talk to hubby about using a cheaper liner for the next waterfall (the one for the baby koi pond) and I got the most disgusted look from him. The "attitude" coming from his LOOK was if I insist, he'll do it HERE, but if anything goes wrong, you'll never hear the end of it look.... I think it would have gone over better if I told him I totalled his truck, and make no mistake, he LOVES his truck LOL.

 

[Minnow]

are you really that comfortable using only a 20 mil liner?

I was wondering the same thing.

Isn't 50mil the recommended thickness?



So, I may have had a "eureka!" type moment earlier.... So, please correct me if I am wrong in what I am envisioning that needs to be done.

I may decide to use my old liner (flexible) as the bog and have it elevated behind and above the new pond area.

So to connect the two, build the new pond area first, leaving extra liner where the two will meet. Then install the bog, placing the old liner in the area and leaving extra liner where the two will meet. Take the extra liner in the pond area, lift it up and place a course of retaining wall type blocks on the liner inside the pond, then fold the extra liner to lay on top of those blocks. Then layer the bog liner over the pond liner and allow it to "fall" over the block and place a waterfall stone on the bog liner.

Is that the correct way to connect them without "seaming" the two together?

:question:

 

[capewind]

I thought the standard was 45 mil, but take very little of what I say to mean a lot. Hubby does 2-3 pond installs each year, but until this last year, I only got involved as far as feeding the fish LOL. I know hubby only uses the 45 mil for his clients, and it is what he did here as well, but my knowledge ends there. I have huge gaps in my own knowledge.