CW's Back Yard Water Garden Begins!


YShahar

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Oy! What about installing a simple siphon break pipe (with a hole open to air) somewhere in the line? Wouldn't that be more reliable than the check valve? Not familiar with your plumbing setup, so this may not be applicable...
 
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addy1

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Darn,

How about cutting the pipe going through the bulkhead and cap the outside and inside pipe. Rather than try and do a patch. Not leaking now, cap the pipe, still not leaking.
 
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Oy! What about installing a simple siphon break pipe (with a hole open to air) somewhere in the line? Wouldn't that be more reliable than the check valve? Not familiar with your plumbing setup, so this may not be applicable...

Afraid it won’t work. Siphon break needs to be able to introduce air into the main line, which can’t happen until water level is below the top of that mainline pipe.

I actually have 3 siphon breakers in the bog plumbing. They work! But not until water level has dropped a foot.
 
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Darn,

How about cutting the pipe going through the bulkhead and cap the outside and inside pipe. Rather than try and do a patch. Not leaking now, cap the pipe, still not leaking.

That’s also an option. Thinking the bulkhead will eventually leak someday we’ll into the future so might be better to patch now while I have everything opened up.

Another option is to leave plumbing in place and puta second check valve just inside the bog liner where the pipe enters.

That would provide some additional safety, but would also require getting at the bulkhead so if I’m ripping that area up, why not do the bulletproof solution?
 

YShahar

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Afraid it won’t work. Siphon break needs to be able to introduce air into the main line, which can’t happen until water level is below the top of that mainline pipe.

I actually have 3 siphon breakers in the bog plumbing. They work! But not until water level has dropped a foot.
Bummer.

Well hopefully you'll figure out a solution; I'm betting on your ingenuity winning the day!
 
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I believe I know what you did and why they won't work.
You have the feed for the bog coming in the bottom from a bulked fitting thus you have a 4 foot pipe going up to higher than water level and the siphoned isn't breaking. That would be because there's to much draw /head pressure to the supply pipe as the air is trying to break Siphon its being sucked down the pipe .afraid the only way to stop that is with an electric check valve. They are held open with power and when the power goes off. It slams shut.the reason the vent works after dropping a foot the head pressure from inside the bog equals out with the siphone breaker.
 
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Been busy with work and other landscaping projects, but got started on the bridge over the future stream today.

C6B7E9E9-28E0-4684-8E13-B36298EDA32F.jpeg
 

j.w

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Been busy with work and other landscaping projects, but got started on the bridge over the future stream today.

View attachment 155733

Dude is that a beached killer whale to the left of your boards? I see him plain as day!

Better get him in the water quick like :joyful:
1673637726577.gif
 
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Well, just my luck. Woke up Friday morning and the pump was off and bog drained down again. Only this time, pump won't restart. Getting quite tired of this.

Something tripped the GFCI Thursday night that knocked out the pump. Check valve failed AGAIN (I think debris in the line may have prevented a complete seal).

Reminder: I have a variable speed pump w/ onboard controls.

Power on pump. Low voltage controls fire up, but motor will only come on line for a second before tripping GFCI. Try another GFCI circuit. Same result. Try non-gfci circuit, now the motor won't come on at all.

Call manufacturer. They suggest testing voltage at plug and removing pump from power for several hours to drain capacitors and get pump back to factory settings. Leave it unplugged overnight. Try again, same result.

Start disassembling pump to troubleshoot. Pull control module off. F***'n thing is full of water. My guess: I messed up the grade of my overflow path when I mulched over it, reservoir was already full of water w/ no spare capacity, and the failed check valve allowed a rush of water to back flow into the reservoir and overflow into the pump area, partially submerging it.

Call manufacturer back: "Yeah it's probably toast."

$600 down the drain. But they felt bad for me and said they might be able to find a replacement in the warehouse they'd sell me at cost.

Anyway, I'm going to prioritize the bog plumbing fix because I'm really tired of this backflow issue. And I think I've found a solution that won't require undoing rock work and plumbing already buried in the bog.

I'm simply going to make a hump in the plumbing outside of the bog that rises above bog water level, stick a tee on the top of the hump and install an air admittance valve. It'll cost me (4) elbows and the associated head pressure, but should solve this problem once and for all and should be a quick retrofit. Credit to Dad for that idea.

And if things don't work out with this pump, I'm also seriously considering switching to a submersible, though I haven't found one that ticks all my boxes yet.
 
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Check valve failed AGAIN ( `
air admittance valve
That's rough, that's the kinda unforeseen that wipe out your fish. It could have been worse like having hundreds of dollars on fish. LOOK ON THE BRIGHT SIDE IT WON'T HAPPEN AGAIN

Check valves really need some head pressure pushing on them forcing the flap shut. But the springs do get tired, though admittedly not so soon. Your air admittance valve I am unaware of at least in name.

Like I recommended before and is a hard a pill as it is to swallow, " A VACUUM BREAKER " is what I use They are the same principle as is a check valve. so while I have check valves as well. A nd i know they do very little but slow the siphon down. I know they work limitedly.

The Vacuum breaker works in reverse instead of the check valve losing power and trying to spring shut against the water. A vacuum breaker is held closed when the pump is on by the water being pushed at it. When the power goes out it has no water pressure holding it shut and air enters the pipe it allows a 1" or a 2" open throwing enough air to break a 3" lines back siphon

Like you said bring the pipe up over the top of the bog. tap in with a tee and put the vacuum breaker or two on a 2" line but i would make the what ever you use I'd try to locate it within the bog . If it is too far down the line the back siphon can push through like any hose

 
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Ok, got a backup pump running. Ended up closing the valve on the bog, refilling with the hose to keep the plants wet and plumbing up the bottom filter w/a 3000 gph pump. It's boiling the sand on the bottom right now and kicked up quite the silt cloud, but at least have circulation again.

No good way to get the bog running again right now as I learned the hard way that union fittings are not compatible across brands. The pump came with a union and I could not find one locally that will mate up with that one. And I didn't leave myself any space to cut out and replace the union without digging up part of the line and wasting a bunch of other fittings that are back to back to back with the union, including a 3" ball valve, which I can't even buy locally.

Oh well. Live and learn! Won't let this happen again.

@GBBUDD: Yeah, how lucky am I that my wife refuses to let me get fish. Ha! I know a lot of people pull their pumps for the winter, so it would probably be fine for a long time even with some fish, but I had all of @addy1's plants sitting out of the water with the pump off as water level is 3" lower with no flow. Didn't want to lose 'em.

Vacuum breaker = anti-siphon = air admittance valve. They're all the same thing, so we're speaking the same language.
 
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I didn't leave myself any space to cut out and replace the union without digging up part of the line and wasting a bunch of other fittings
You can cut off the fitting carefully with the multi tool and a Dremel . Leaving the male end. I had to do the same when I added onto the bog . I had two ball valves within a vault. I didn't know if I could make it work but having nothing to loose I tried and it worked . The purple primer saved the day . Then use HD pvc glue .
 
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You can cut off the fitting carefully with the multi tool and a Dremel . Leaving the male end. I had to do the same when I added onto the bog . I had two ball valves within a vault. I didn't know if I could make it work but having nothing to loose I tried and it worked . The purple primer saved the day . Then use HD pvc glue .

Don't think I'm understanding. I have like 4 fittings that are all hub to hub. Hub of one fitting right up against the hub of the next one, almost like a compound fitting. So once you cut one out, there's no pipe left coming out of it to glue a new fitting to. I have seen those "socket savers" though, that works like a kind of reverse lathe to remove a pipe stub from a fitting so that the fitting can be reused. They also make "pipe extenders" that fit the ID of the pipe to give you something to glue onto. Haven't seen a 3" one, though.
 
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same idea, you'll waste at least one fitting but you cut through the hub at the end of the male inside . Then you cut off the remaining of the female, down to the male carefully. Leaving the male intact. It really wasn't that hard or took that long, and i was working within a 24" cmp I used the MULTITOOL and a Dremel.
the purple primer just made it easier to tell when i was into the male end of the fitting and not take off any more
 
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Well, now the fuckin' thing won't start again. Think it might be something with the capacitors after being unplugged. Like they have to charge for awhile before the motor will turn over. Will try again before bed tonight.
 
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Been busy with work and other landscaping projects, but got started on the bridge over the future stream today.

View attachment 155733
Very Nice is that the plastic wood decking trex like material? I did not think to use that I haven't started on my bridge yet but I am trying to think of materials that will hold up well outside. my bridge will be arched though.
 

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