Darksaber Pond - My Next Adventure

[GBBUDD]

I would recommend butter fly koi they can be amazing

 

[milonedp]

@GBBUDD / others what do you medicate with when you first buy fish? I'm setting up a 60-gallon system on my deck and I'm getting everything ready.

 

[brokensword]

@GBBUDD / others what do you medicate with when you first buy fish? I'm setting up a 60-gallon system on my deck and I'm getting everything ready.

how many fish do you plan on quarantining in the 60 gallon? What size? IMO, and especially since you have no fish already, I'd put them right in based on current water temps. I used to quarantine my tropicals but got away from that as I had a lot better success with newbies when I took more time to get healthy fish and they were less stressed when in the community tank. YMMV but 60 gallons is hardly large enough for a couple of goldfish for any length of time.

 

[GBBUDD]

I'd only keep them there with only the pond water to the quarantine tank and just observe them if scratching / flashing or any fungus or bacteria shows up then medicate appropriately

 

[milonedp]

I'd only keep them there with only the pond water to the quarantine tank and just observe them if scratching / flashing or any fungus or bacteria shows up then medicate appropriately

A few at a time probably about 6ish inches, thought you suggested medicated QT? I'm definitely QTing first, not comfortable with adding directly to the pond. Just trying to figure out what medicated protocol to use.

 

[Jhn]

Personally, like @GBBUDD I only treat fish if they show symptoms. I use a 300 gal. rubbermaid stock tank for qting my pond fish, as I have bought some large koi in the past.

 

[GBBUDD]

A few at a time probably about 6ish inches, thought you suggested medicated QT? I'm definitely QTing first, not comfortable with adding directly to the pond. Just trying to figure out what medicated protocol to use.

You have to be very very very VERY careful what if any medications you add to your SWIM POND Merachite green " i know i spelt it wrong" is the most popular for many parasites yet is " a Cancer causing agent

 

[milonedp]

You have to be very very very VERY careful what if any medications you add to your SWIM POND Merachite green " i know i spelt it wrong" is the most popular for many parasites yet is " a Cancer causing agent

Yep one of the main reasons I want to go overboard on QTing first. If you don't recommend prophylactic treatment how long do you recommend if I see no signs of issues? Do you recommend doing scale scrapings?

 

[Lisak1]

Quarantining fish has one purpose - to protect your current fish from anything your new fish may be harboring. Since you HAVE no current fish, your quarantine is only going to uncover any illness or parasites in your new fish, which could just as easily be done while they are in the pond. Unless you plan to buy and quarantine fish one at a time, I really don't see the purpose of quarantine for a new pond full of new fish. I would buy all the fish you plan to add all at once, from a reputable breeder (who will quarantine the fish at their site if they are any good at all).

Could you still have problems? Sure. The process of being caught, moved, and transferred to a new pond can be stressful on fish which can cause illness by weakening the fish. But putting them in quarantine and THEN into the pond won't eliminate that process - in fact, you're adding one more move and one more element of stress.

Just an opinion - take it or leave it as it suits your situation!

 

[milonedp]

@Lisak1, I really appreciate your experience, you've helped me a lot already. Can't QT also keep disease and parasites from ever getting into the pond? I.e. right now I know ICH doesn't exist in my pond, if I introduce a fish that is strong but showing no signs of infection but actually has ICH, I've introduced ICH to the pond and a future fish going through some stressor could more easily catch ICH.

I guess the way I'm looking at this is, do I want to "eradicate" common disease and parasites, or do I want to "manage" them. I'm still trying to sort through is "is the juice worth the squeeze".

My thinking is:
1. If I prophylactically treat for common parasites and diseases I could ensure they never get into the pond so if something stresses the pond the fish don't have to deal with those parasites and diseases, just whatever the stressor was.
2. If I do not treat prophylactically and just see if anything arises in QT then I'm not certain that those issues don't exist in the pond and the focus is just trying to keep the fish healthy enough to fight off any stressors or disease or parasites int he pond.
3. If I just put the first batch directly in the pond I don't even have the opportunity of observation and I've introduced whatever those fish have into the pond.

It seems as though the saltwater community generally recommends the first option and for years I've focused on eradication but I'm not sure that is possible or worth the effort on the pond. This community is recommending the second or third? Am I thinking about this wrong? Thoughts?

 

[Lisak1]

Here's my take - it's a pond, not a tank. You really can't control everything that gets into the pond. We lost a few dozen fish to a parasite that we believe was introduced into the pond via a really nice pair of wild mallard ducks that chose our pond as a nesting spot one spring. Who knows what all else is out there that could be delivered via the wind, the rain, birds, frogs, squirrels, dogs, cats, raccoons... you get my point. Even plants that you purchase and add to the pond could be problematic. So it's not quite the nice sterile environment of an indoor tank. Lots of vectors for contamination.

As for things like parasites that you might introduce into the pond from fish - yes, that could be an issue. But I've never been big fan of prophylactically treating anything for disease - not animals, not humans, not fish. So that's really a personal choice. And if you're just using quarantine to observe, not treat, there's no real guarantee that anything you're watching for will rear it's head during quarantine. Maybe the stress of moving from QT to pond will be the stressor to an individual fish that allows the parasite to take over. Maybe an injury suffered during transfer weakens a fish... just some ideas of ways that QT can be limiting.

I think the biggest thing you should consider is the source of your fish. A reputable dealer should already be QTing fish and should have no issue with sharing the methods they use to guarantee healthy fish.

Again - just my opinion based on my own logic. Lots of folks would disagree, and that's OK. Lots of ways to keep a pond!

 

[GBBUDD]

which could just as easily be done while they are in the pond

Speaking as someone who has a pond similar is size to @milonedp that can be easier said then done. That's why i put that addition onto my pond. Ok one of the reasons . We call that shallow area dead pool. i have little to no chance to catch a particular fish in my pond once they are in there. When i am trying to catch one particular fish i am rarely successful but usually catch someone else. I'd do all i can to insure alls good before they are released in a large pond. One tip i can give is a very bright flash light and a big net and try to blind the fish so they don't see the net coming that and to try and catch them when the temps drop.

 

[GBBUDD]

As for things like parasites that you might introduce into the pond from fish - yes, that could be an issue. But I've never been big fan of prophylactically treating anything for disease - not animals, not humans, not fish. So that's really a personal choice.

agreed

 

[milonedp]

Thanks, leaving toward QT but no treatments. Thoughts on salt? Ordering fish from NextDayKoi and they keep their water at .35

 

[GBBUDD]

I have only seen it's old school never played with it myself