Dead fish in goldfish pond

[CountryEscape]

I was gone to UT to visit my daughter this past week, had the regular neighbor kids tending to my ponds and animals and flowers. This morning I found 5 dead goldfish, 3 of which were the biggest size in the pond, about 7" long. None of them had any sores on them, one was somewhat chewed on, was on the bottom, the other 4 were either floating (3) or in the skimmer (1 - smallest of the bunch, about 3" long). There is another fish about 4" long that is stressed, sucking air, too.
What do I need to look for, and what can I do at this point? I know parasites would likely show up as red sores on the body, and there was nothing on any of the fish to that regard. I looked them all over very closely, and could not even find a scale out of place. Only the one that had been eaten on, but I have other things that could have chewed on it, like bullfrogs or painted turtles.
My plan is to pump out about 1/4 of the pond, and refill it with well water, but wondering if there is anything else that I can do to help stop this issue. If taking pics of the fish would help, I can do that, too.
Thanks for your help!
Patti

 

[j.w]

Oh no that's too bad CE. I too would change part of the water and do some tests also on it. Sometimes the bigger ones die from lack of oxygen before the littler ones do. Have heard people say this before. You have air pump going too right? Was it really hot while you were gone? Did the kids notice any of them dead before you got home? Hope someone else can help you more on this problem so you don't lose any more of them.

 

[CountryEscape]

I don't have a bubbler going on either ponds, never have, but know it's important in the heat of the summer. Actually, it was pretty cool while I was gone, today is the hottest, and it's about 85 right now. Going to put the air pump on that pond, though, and see if that helps. Getting ready to drain down the pond, didn't want to start that while I was mowing, and forget and drain too much. Then going to add fresh water. Maybe with the combination of air and new water, things will settle down. And, they never noticed, but there might have been at least one or two dead, they just simply didn't look or notice. I smelled it when I went to the pond last night, checked skimmer, found one, then got flashlight and found 2 more. This morning found another, probably already dead last night, but it was among the lily leaves, and likely out of view. The white one that was stressed looking is still hanging in there. I know I should probably take it out, but don't have a tank running to put it in by itself. Got to figure something out for that. Guess I could use a bucket and an air bubbler for now. May try that, as I have 2 battery operated bubblers available.

 

[fishin4cars]

Test the water CE, That's rule #1 when there is no evidence of anything right off the bat. I've seen water stay stable for years and just one thing change out of the ordinary and water starts changing unknowingly. clear water doesn't mean healthy water, as I'm sure you already know.

 

[sissy]

Geeze soory to hear this ,your fish were so nice too .I know with my parents house in PA if there is no humans around for awhile the predators would sneak up and destroy things ,but thinking you would have noticed any damage .Could the fish have been overfed and food got around the edges and spoiled .Was there a lot rain while you were gone .

 

[pecan]

I am so sorry!

Do you think maybe the kids could have over fed them?

 

[CountryEscape]

Pretty sure overfeeding was not the problem. They are told how much to feed every day, and when the fish stop eating, they are done. In fact, when we did the "test run" this last time, she was stopping about 2 tosses before I would have. I give them a small container, one-half of it feeds both ponds. The container only holds I think 1 cup, so that's only about 1/4 cup per pond (goldfish and koi). I am sure that was not the problem.
No predators, nothing amiss, just dead fish.
Ran tests, here's what I have:

Goldfish pond:

PH 8
Ammonia 0
NItrite 0
Nitrate 10-20 (honestly, to me the 10 and 20 ppm colors look exactly alike on my chart)
KH 286.4 ppm
GH 501.2 ppm

Koi pond:

PH 8.2
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0
KH 232.7
GH 393.8

Keep in mind, the goldfish water test was after draining out about 6" of water, and refilling with my well water. And, I've been running the air pump into it for about 5 hours now, too. Koi pond has no air bubbler, but has a fountain. Goldfish pond didn't really have much "splash" going on, just water going over a 5" waterfall from the stream, and running over a 2" edge from the bog. Going to put a fountain in that pond to get more oxygen going. Both ponds are about 50% covered with lilies right now, goldfish pond maybe more like 60-65% coverage.

The only thing I can think of that has changed in the goldfish pond in the last 2-3 weeks is that when I topped off the koi pond one time, I overfilled it (about 5 hours of overfilling ...), and that pond overflows into the stream, which feeds the goldfish pond. Otherwise, koi pond water never gets into the goldfish pond. It looks to me like the koi pond's hardness is "softer" than the goldfish pond, so maybe the water change today drove those numbers up on the goldfish pond.

If I'm reading the numbers correctly, my nitrate level is way too high in the goldfish pond, probably my problem. Can I assume I should do water changes every day or maybe every other day (it's 3' deep, how much water should I change out each time? - approx 2700 gal in pond, plus the bog, which is about 1000 gal more, I believe)? And, found a fantail that I had bought at the local pet shop dead, had been dead several days, was under the lily pads. It was more deteriorated than the others, so not sure that will help with any identification. I suspect the nitrate levels being high are what my problem is, but sure hoping to hear from you guys if I'm off, and also if there is anything else I can do to help straighten out the problem, if that is what the problem likely is.

Thanks everyone for your help.

 

[CountryEscape]

Oh, about the Nitrate test and the color chart, if I hold the test tube AGAINST the chart, it reads higher (10-20), if I hold it just about 1/4" away, it would read 5 ppm. Not sure how to read that one for certain. All the other charts are easy to read, I guess since they were all zero, and the next color is quite different than the zero color. It was definitely higher than the koi pond, though. But not sure really how much higher. I know that 5-20 is a huge jump but just wanted to make that point, in case someone knows the proper way to read the chart. It says "hold it against the white background", but I wasn't sure if that meant literally "against" or in front of it.
Also, the white goldfish that seemed to be somewhat stressed earlier, was about 4" under the water, about 2' from the air pump bubbler, and seems to be much better now.

 

[sissy]

sounds like a lack of oxygen and could be maybe at the bottom of the pond it is depleted that happened to me a couple of years ago and got the aerator and pumped lots of air down there .I used a extra piece of hose from my pump until I got the aerator .I actually still use it with a ball valve .Really puts air into the water .I like the noise it makes
[sharedmedia=core:attachments:58108]
[sharedmedia=core:attachments:58107]
[sharedmedia=core:attachments:58106]

 

[CountryEscape]

So, from your water pump, you have it blowing the water through a ball valve, so you can control the amount of water it pushes, and then by doing it at the surface, you're creating lots of bubbles i.e. oxygen, is that right? I know someone had a way of pumping the water into a skippy, adding something that added tons of oxygen, but for the life of me I don't remember what it was. I remember it looked like a great idea, though.

 

[sissy]

you may be talking about koiguys air gap thing he has a video on you tube .I got them with every pump I bought from harbor freight all you do is add a hose to it and run the hose up and out of the water so it sucks air in and it mixes with the water
[sharedmedia=core:attachments:39001]
[sharedmedia=core:attachments:33990]
[sharedmedia=core:attachments:33991]

 

[haver79]

Sorry to hear about your fish country. Being a newbie I sure cannot offer any ideas to help. At least if the issue is lack of oxygen, hopefully it will be an easy fix so you don't loose anymore fish.

 

[CountryEscape]

Well, after running the air pump most of the day, I thought I saw improvement, but with it off, noticed two small fantails in some distress, hanging at the surface between the lilies. However, if I got near to them, they darted away, so have energy, just not using it unless necessary. No more dead fish that I've noticed, and the 3 now that I see that seem to be somewhat distressed are still hanging in there. No one would know they were having problems except me, since I know their usual nature. Turned air pump back on for tonight, will run all night and maybe all day tomorrow while I'm at work.
Sure hope someone can let me know if the nitrate level is dangerously high and if I should do water changes daily, how much (inches or percentage of water ...) each day to help rectify that situation. I sure don't see anything else that is causing the problem from the water tests I did.

 

[CountryEscape]

I'm hoping to get someone to answer another question. I told a ponder on here and also my sister that just moved to WI, has new pond dug and I presume filled up, that I would send pond plants today. I've been holding out to pull any from the goldfish pond or that bog, worrying I may be sending some sickness with them. Will it make a difference with the fish dying, so I should not send any from that pond, or will the plants not be affected? I am on the safe side, thinking only plants from the koi pond should be pulled, but wondering if they can be dunked in some solution to make sure if any illness is in the water, that the plants will not transfer that disease. Any thoughts?
This morning, all 3 of the fish that seemed stressed yesterday still seem to be moving slower than the others, although 2 of them ate at least one piece of food this morning. None are swimming sideways or anything, but the 2 fantails are kind of hovering in the lily pads, the white goldfish was in the air bubbles but seeming to be more fine. When I shut off the bubbles and waited a bit, it seemed to be moving slow again. Will turn full air on all day again today. But still wondering if I should do another water change?

 

[j.w]

You know since you have well water and no chlorine added you can let a hose run constantly at a really,really slow amount coming out and the excess will just run out your overflow as long as you have tested your well water to make sure its results turn out right. Some people do this trickle in system all the time in their ponds. I do it once in awhile but I set up a small pump to pump out some of the water slowly while running the well water in at the same very slow speed. I like to allow the water coming into the pond to drop from above to create more disturbance to the surface water allowing for more oxygen. When you just stick a hose down into the water when filling from a well, our wells don't have much oxygen down under ground like that so letting the water drop from up higher helps w/ that problem. I also have my air pump running 12 lines into my pond w/ an air stone attached to each line so I can spread the lines around the pond. My stones are not too far from the surface as closer to the surface w/ breaking bubbles I was told was better than having them way down deep.