Desperate for tips. Once again concrete pond is leaking

[texmaster]

So this has been an issue for years and years and years. This is an indoor concrete pond. Its filled with a hose over the side. The pump sits inside the pond. A few months ago I purchased from pond armor which I've used successfully on my outside pond. So I gave it a go inside. Cleaned the walls, applied 2 coats of the product (used both white and black because the warden wanted a white bottom) Filled it up and once again it began to to leak in the EXACT SAME SPOTS as before on the outsides of the pond onto the floor around it. What's more frustrating is the bottom of the pond is lower than the floor level but the leak continues on the outside onto the floor. Most of the water leaks out from the left and some on the right, some on the back and front. The floor leans towards the back door. I am completely out of ideas.

If anyone has any suggestions on something to put in the water to track the leak (ive tried before without success but willing to try again), anything please.

The water ONLY is filled up to the black which is the pond armor (and the white)

This is where it was in the morning from the top of the black where it was filled. But it continued to go down even though the leaking on the floor had stopped.

 

[GBBUDD]

WELDED SEAM PVC ANY ROOFER CAN HELP YOU OUT WHO DOES WELDED SEAMS . LINING WITH BLACK EPD WHERE IT IS ALSO CUT AND SEAMED COULD WORK AS WELL BUT ITS ONLY AVAILABLE IN BLACK

 

[combatwombat]

If it stops leaking on the floor but continues to lose water, that probably means you have a leak lower in the basin as well. What is beneath the pond? Hopefully nothing that can't get wet!

As for waterproofing, you might try some hydraulic cement if you can find the source of the leak before applying more pond armor. If the pond armor isn't working, I'd think one of two things: either it wasn't applied properly, or it going over a concrete crack that is too big for the epoxy to bridge. That's where hydraulic cement would help.

Might be easier to just order a welded RPE or EPDM liner in the dimensions you need. Think there are a few online pond shops that sell liners w/ welded corners so that you can just drop them in and they'll fit perfectly.

 

[brokensword]

I'd do as CW says; fixing persistent leaks takes a lot of the fun away from having a pond. By the time you tally up the cost of fixing and re-fixing, you probably have a liner cost and only having to do it once. Then sit back for the next 20+ years and we won't have to discuss your leaks with you anymore!

 

[texmaster]

If it stops leaking on the floor but continues to lose water, that probably means you have a leak lower in the basin as well. What is beneath the pond? Hopefully nothing that can't get wet!

As for waterproofing, you might try some hydraulic cement if you can find the source of the leak before applying more pond armor. If the pond armor isn't working, I'd think one of two things: either it wasn't applied properly, or it going over a concrete crack that is too big for the epoxy to bridge. That's where hydraulic cement would help.

Might be easier to just order a welded RPE or EPDM liner in the dimensions you need. Think there are a few online pond shops that sell liners w/ welded corners so that you can just drop them in and they'll fit perfectly.

Nothing beneath it but the drain and that just drains out under the foundation.

Thank you for the suggestions.

I guess my only conscern about a welded RPE or liner is how do you cut out places for the fountain, drain and pump?

 

[combatwombat]

how do you cut out places for the fountain, drain and pump?

Fountain & pump lines can go over the liner. Typically they are disguised by rock work. That wouldn't really work in your case and wouldn't work for a drain. You can, instead, do bulkhead fittings through the liner.

On that note, are you sure your drain isn't leaking?

 

[texmaster]

Fountain & pump lines can go over the liner. Typically they are disguised by rock work. That wouldn't really work in your case and wouldn't work for a drain. You can, instead, do bulkhead fittings through the liner.

On that note, are you sure your drain isn't leaking?

Am I positive? No. But I do know even if it is leaking that wouldn't cause the water to leak outside to the floor in the garden room.

 

[combatwombat]

Am I positive? No. But I do know even if it is leaking that wouldn't cause the water to leak outside to the floor in the garden room.

Right, but it sounds like you have two leaks. One at one height, which leaks water onto your floor until water level reaches that point. Then, water continues to leak somewhere below that point.

 

[GBBUDD]

Nothing beneath it but the drain and that just drains out under the foundation.

Thank you for the suggestions.

I guess my only conscern about a welded RPE or liner is how do you cut out places for the fountain, drain and pump?

It's called a pitch pocket. where the pipes come in through the liner. but i would do that a little different i'd *.run the pipe up in the corner and just build a 45 piece welded over the corner so your just hiding it . run it up to the bottom of your edge cap and work it from there .. this way you have no penitrations.

As to the hydrolic cement it's a great product but you have some work to do before you even entertain applying it to to your current walls. All that paint epoxy what ever it is has to go and the grout lines that are sunk in will also have to be cut out. This will all need to be done to a point where you find solid concrete no flacking or loose materials will do.

 

[poconojoe]

Nothing beneath it but the drain and that just drains out under the foundation.

Thank you for the suggestions.

I guess my only conscern about a welded RPE or liner is how do you cut out places for the fountain, drain and pump?

Could the leak be in the bottom drain plumbing?
Can you somehow temporarily cover that drain to isolate it?

 

[GBBUDD]

Could the leak be in the bottom drain plumbing?
Can you somehow temporarily cover that drain to isolate it?

They have bladders that you can place in the opening of the pipe and you turn a screw to squeeze the bladder to seal off the drain.

 

[kelpie]

So this has been an issue for years and years and years. This is an indoor concrete pond. Its filled with a hose over the side. The pump sits inside the pond. A few months ago I purchased from pond armor which I've used successfully on my outside pond. So I gave it a go inside. Cleaned the walls, applied 2 coats of the product (used both white and black because the warden wanted a white bottom) Filled it up and once again it began to to leak in the EXACT SAME SPOTS as before on the outsides of the pond onto the floor around it. What's more frustrating is the bottom of the pond is lower than the floor level but the leak continues on the outside onto the floor. Most of the water leaks out from the left and some on the right, some on the back and front. The floor leans towards the back door. I am completely out of ideas.

If anyone has any suggestions on something to put in the water to track the leak (ive tried before without success but willing to try again), anything please.

The water ONLY is filled up to the black which is the pond armor (and the white)

This is where it was in the morning from the top of the black where it was filled. But it continued to go down even though the leaking on the floor had stopped.

Sorry to hear about your leak.. I cant see clearly from the pictures, is that definitely concrete or a rendered block work?
the outside of the pond looks to have vertical mortar joints...


Here's a couple of ideas you may wish to investigate.
1; Roofers have the skill set to put a lining in, especially roofers that do flat roofs using Firestone EDPM. the product is very similar and the techniques the same. Firestone sell a pipe pocket designed to allow a pipe to come through a liner. there is a whole series on youtube about their pond liner / roofing products and the correct way to install them. inside corners / outside corners, pipes etc..

2. drain dyes. Putting drain dyes into the full pond should make it easier to identify the "where" if you started with yellow, and laid kitchen roll on the floor around the pond, you will quickly see where the yellow water is coming from.
b; after the pond stabilises to the lower level, add red drain dye... now go hunting for the orange water with kitchen roll. Various types of dye are available including ones with larger particles that clump to show where a flow is happening.

Ardrox and similar are crack testing sprays but might well show up 'cracks' in the pond.

3. fine bore cameras. available to hook to your phone used for engine inspections etc,

Personally I would suspect whatever water proofing was there is now porous.. A drop in liner? they can be purchased ready made to a custom size. That sounds like the most expedient solution, or re-render the inside of the pond with a waterproof latex paint / plaster / concrete mix. the old way of doing it was to use a PVA glue in a cement mortar mix. I imagine technology has probably progressed since then and better solutions are available.

 

[texmaster]

Small update. I did pick up some leak detector that clings to a leak with bubbles and we found a large area covered in bottles in the corner with the pump on both the black and white so first order we are going to apply more of the membrane and try a leak test again

 

[Pharian]

EPDM liner in there and you're good to go. If you can glue or weld the seams on the corners, to make a form fitting bucket of it, then it will even look good.

 

[kelpie]

firestone have a load of videos about liner instalation techniques here