Differences in feeding based on pond size

Joined
Jul 11, 2007
Messages
1,194
Reaction score
386
Location
Colorado - zone 5a
Hardiness Zone
5a
I have commented many times in the past about how my fish would continue feeding strongly until the water temperature dropped below the 40F mark, despite most people suggesting not to feed them after the temperature had dropped below 50F. Well with the Winter storms that have been blowing through the last couple weeks, I have made a very interesting observation...

For those who don't know me, over the past 4 years I kept a small pond comprised of two pre-formed liners which fed one into the other. The total capacity was only somewhere around 250 gallons. This Spring I moved my fish, tore everything up, and dug out a completely new (much larger) pond which feeds through a stream into a second small pond. Total capacity of this new setup is somewhere around 1400 gallons.

I still have all of my original fish (two of which were purchased the week I built my first pond), and the new large pond sits exactly where the old pond was located, so there is no reason to think that these fish would change their feeding habits... and yet they very obviously have. When the first snow rolled in before Halloween, the water temperature dropped into the 40's and the fish settled into the bottom. Nothing unusual there. Except that when the storm had passed and the sun came out, the fish started swimming around again, but they have refused to eat any food I've tried dropping in for them. In past years, even though the water temperature did not change, the fish would continue eating on sunny days until the water temperature dropped below 40-42 degrees. Last year, because of the weird weather, my fish continued to eat well into January.

This is quite a significant change in behavior. My fish have held to the same patterns for the previous four years. They have many of the same types of plants in the water (although I have added a few new types). They have the same water quality and the same conditions of sunlight. They were fed the same type of food (and unfortunately I was not able to feed them the wheat-germ food more than a couple times before they went dormant due to expecting them to continue eating for at least another month). And of course I have kept my pumps running as in previous years. The only significant changes are that the pond is larger and deeper.

In all the discussions I've read about Winter/Spring feeding, I have never seen the size of the pond mentioned as a factor in the fish's feeding habits, although others have mentioned their own observed differences in their fish. Of course its not every day that people are able to upgrade their fish to a significantly larger pond. And logically this seems backwards to me -- I would expect fish to be more likely to feed at lower temperatures in a larger pond because they are able to warm up in the depths. Any thoughts on what may be going on here?
 
Joined
Apr 10, 2010
Messages
3,214
Reaction score
1,296
Location
Phoenix AZ
I love experiments and you've provided good data. I learned a lot, so thanks.

There's really a ton of things that could be the cause. Basically anything that could stress a fish could cause lack of appetite. Could be something bad, could be something normal. New pond, first year, some insect may have found this a perfect place for eggs because of nice new algae, lack of competitors and the fish have been eating fat larva. So with the low temps they could already be full. I have no way of knowing of course, just saying.

Bigger fish can go longer between meals. My assumption would just be they aren't hungry until I saw another symptom.

To rule out the bad causes you can go through all the normal stuff...meaning stuff that's easy to check. Ammonia, nitrite, KH, GH although it doesn't sound like an ammonia or nitrite problem. The nitrifying bacteria slow down as water cools and shuts down at 39F, so worth a check.

I've always taken the same tact as you, feeding fish and ignoring the temp rules. I've always suspected they know when to eat and when to stop. When growing up I was told often goldfish would eat until they exploded. I'm sure food can rot in their gut, but I'm also sure it's not as big a problem as is advertised.
 

addy1

water gardener / gold fish and shubunkins
Moderator
Joined
Jun 23, 2010
Messages
44,340
Reaction score
29,091
Location
Frederick, Maryland
Showcase(s):
1
Hardiness Zone
6b
Country
United States
With the swinging temperatures we are having my fish in my somewhat large pond, have all settled to the bottom of the pond. Every now and then they do a small swim, I have seen them a few times go down and pick on the few plants and the small amount algae I left for the snails, tads, and frogs.

I have not tried to feed them recently, they don't show any interest in even moving. We hit 24 this am again, guess we can't stop it the cold is coming lol. The pond was 47 a day ago, 41 this am
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2007
Messages
1,194
Reaction score
386
Location
Colorado - zone 5a
Hardiness Zone
5a
Waterbug - Not everything was 100% new in the new pond. I pre-seeded one of the new filters by running it on the old pond for about a month before the digging started. And there were plenty of rocks and plants that came out of the old pond containing algae and bacteria. I was trying to make the change as non-stressful for the fish as possible. Considering the breeding frenzy I saw this Summer, I can only assume they were all very happy with their new home. As for being full - well they certainly fattened up quite a lot before the cold weather set it, but right up into the first snow, they were all eating like pigs, and I've certainly never seen a little snow slow them down before. Also I doubled the number of fish this year with the addition of several new koi and shubunkins. There were also four babies born last Fall that grew into their colors this year. So most of the fish are most certainly not that large.

addy - That's what has me confused... we have swinging temps as well, but that is certainly normal for my area (we were in the 80's when the snow came in overnight), and usually the fish respond by settling to the bottom while its cold, then swimming around when the sun comes back out and warms the water surface. They have been swimming around, just don't seem to have any interest in food. I guess we'll see what the weather does over the next couple months, I've just never seen my fish refuse food when they are out swimming around.
 

sissy

sissy
Joined
Jan 17, 2011
Messages
33,086
Reaction score
15,702
Location
Axton virginia
Showcase(s):
1
Hardiness Zone
7A
Country
United States
My fish are still wanting to eat but lowest temp at night has been 39 and day temps range from 50 to 75 degrees and water temp is at 55 degrees .I only feed them the wheat germ 2 or 3 times a week and only what they will eat .I have temp meter at the bottom of my pond and it reads out digitally and it reads the bottom temp of my pond at 78 and has gradually dropped down to 68 during the day and at night it drops a small amount gradually everyday now .I got this thing in that box of pond stuff I bought at the auction that no one would bid and not sure it would work but so far has worked pretty good .I put it in over a month ago .I had to figure out what it was and how it worked .It only had numbers on the thing and no name and I had to find batteries and then found it could be plugged in after I found a power cord in the box of stuff .
 

j.w

I Love my Goldies
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
32,948
Reaction score
20,254
Location
Arlington, Washington
Showcase(s):
1
Hardiness Zone
USDA 8a
Country
United States
Maybe fish are like birds they can sense when it is going to get really cold soon and fill up really well on food and then hunker down for the long run?
 

sissy

sissy
Joined
Jan 17, 2011
Messages
33,086
Reaction score
15,702
Location
Axton virginia
Showcase(s):
1
Hardiness Zone
7A
Country
United States
Bears hibernate and fish know more than we do .We are stupid we still have to go out in the winter and freeze our butts off LOL
 

j.w

I Love my Goldies
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
32,948
Reaction score
20,254
Location
Arlington, Washington
Showcase(s):
1
Hardiness Zone
USDA 8a
Country
United States
Yep you don't see any fish mowing lawns or shoveling snow do ya :goldfish:
 

sissy

sissy
Joined
Jan 17, 2011
Messages
33,086
Reaction score
15,702
Location
Axton virginia
Showcase(s):
1
Hardiness Zone
7A
Country
United States
NO and I sure as heck don't see them helping anytime in the near future either .We are there slaves .They are not dumb .
 

koiguy1969

GIGGETY-GIGGETY!!
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Messages
10,587
Reaction score
6,408
Location
Michigan zone 5b
back to the original question....in your basement your not going to be able to keep the "pond" planted without the appropriate lighting. so if your not providing this light and keeping adequate vegetation you'll either have to do more frequent water changes,and/or feed minimally..to keep ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates in an acceptable range..and the final product of biological filtration is nitrates. normally plantlife including algeas would feed on the nitrates produced. but without them.......
water changes are also important to dilute built up pheromomes, which when become excessive can seriously to totally shut down a kois immune system. leaving them vulnerable to parasitic, viral or bacterial infections. both internal and external.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2007
Messages
1,194
Reaction score
386
Location
Colorado - zone 5a
Hardiness Zone
5a
koiguy - were you replying to a different thread? I didn't see any mention of a basement pond. I've never actually done water changes on my outdoor ponds, I just top off as needed.
 

addy1

water gardener / gold fish and shubunkins
Moderator
Joined
Jun 23, 2010
Messages
44,340
Reaction score
29,091
Location
Frederick, Maryland
Showcase(s):
1
Hardiness Zone
6b
Country
United States
Lol think he goofed........

Darn heron flew back in today, 30 degrees, frost everywhere. Thought the sucker was gone. The fish were all low, the heron sort of flew over the pond then landed on the house roof. Think the gator heads caught it attention, they are real obvious without the plants around. We have to go back to florida, of course the sucker shows up now...........

I am watching the fish right now shdwdrgn, they are moving around, the water is cold 42, the few I see seem to be feeding on some algae. It is dark so they are just white fish yanking on some stuff near the camera.
 

sissy

sissy
Joined
Jan 17, 2011
Messages
33,086
Reaction score
15,702
Location
Axton virginia
Showcase(s):
1
Hardiness Zone
7A
Country
United States
That heron is not going to give up on you addy he is one determined sucker and Knows dinner is there but trying to figure out how to get it .It must be male they never give up on something they want LOL.You need a fake screech owl I saw it on youtube and the guy set it up by his pond to scare away critters .I guess it must have a motion sensor in it .I couldn't figure out what i was looking at when the video came on and all of a sudden a big bird (guessing heron ) landed by the pond and the sucker screech and scared the begeebers out of me .Good gosh LOL
 

addy1

water gardener / gold fish and shubunkins
Moderator
Joined
Jun 23, 2010
Messages
44,340
Reaction score
29,091
Location
Frederick, Maryland
Showcase(s):
1
Hardiness Zone
6b
Country
United States
Laughing sissy, we tried a driveway alarm, loud, the bird quit walking through the gate and started flying in so it did not hear that noise.
With the cold i am not to concerned right now, unless one pops up to surface right when the heron visits. But have not seen them do that in awhile. I put the deer net back over the pond just loosely hung, mainly so the bird can't fly in and land in the water, will remove it when we get back.
 

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments. After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.

Ask a Question

Members online

No members online now.

Forum statistics

Threads
30,782
Messages
508,588
Members
13,042
Latest member
lucaryan

Latest Threads

Top