Do I have reason to worry?


Joined
Jun 8, 2016
Messages
2,977
Reaction score
2,840
Hardiness Zone
5b
Country
United States
This passed Spring, I exchanged a few large koi for smaller ones! I have 12 fish (10 koi, 2 shubunkin) and only 1 is 100% sure female, the rest could end up being all male....I know most of them are young and things can change in time, but if that turns out to be the case (11 male to 1 female),coming next Spring, should I worry that the only female will get chased none stop and end up stressing out?
 
Joined
Sep 14, 2013
Messages
4,261
Reaction score
3,350
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio
Hardiness Zone
6 A
Country
United States
I've read that a ratio of 2-3 males, per female is recommended.

I'm not 100 % sure, but I think I have 2 females and 2 males. I'm considering lowering my pond water when they spawn next Spring, so they don't come into contact with rocks at the ponds edge.
 
Ad

Advertisements

sissy

sissy
Joined
Jan 17, 2011
Messages
31,804
Reaction score
14,746
Location
Axton virginia
Hardiness Zone
7A
Country
United States
They can jump out also or possibly kill the female being to aggressive
 
Joined
Jun 8, 2016
Messages
2,977
Reaction score
2,840
Hardiness Zone
5b
Country
United States
I've read that a ratio of 2-3 males, per female is recommended.

I'm not 100 % sure, but I think I have 2 females and 2 males. I'm considering lowering my pond water when they spawn next Spring, so they don't come into contact with rocks at the ponds edge.
I wish I could do that butthe way the skimmer is positioned I don't really have that option!
 
Joined
Sep 14, 2013
Messages
4,261
Reaction score
3,350
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio
Hardiness Zone
6 A
Country
United States
I wish I could do that butthe way the skimmer is positioned I don't really have that option!
I have a pump in my skimmer, so will have to keep the water level high enough for that, but I figure any minimization of coming into contact with rocks, is an improvement :)
 
Joined
Jun 8, 2016
Messages
2,977
Reaction score
2,840
Hardiness Zone
5b
Country
United States
They can jump out also or possibly kill the female being to aggressive
My fish can jump, but not out, I have the pond covered with a thick, coated steel mesh
 
Joined
Jun 8, 2016
Messages
2,977
Reaction score
2,840
Hardiness Zone
5b
Country
United States
I have a pump in my skimmer, so will have to keep the water level high enough for that, but I figure any minimization of coming into contact with rocks, is an improvement :)
My husband grind smooth all the stones cause some were super sharp, I hope that's good enough so no fish will get hurt
 
Joined
Jun 8, 2016
Messages
2,977
Reaction score
2,840
Hardiness Zone
5b
Country
United States
That is a lot of males that will be pounding on ONE female during spawning. Sometimes they do not survive.
That's what I'm afraid of!
Could it be possible, that some of these young fish turn out to be also female and only chase the female right now, cause the rest of the fish do?
 
Joined
Dec 21, 2015
Messages
1,189
Reaction score
654
Location
Hershey, PA
Hardiness Zone
6A
Country
United States
One of my pretty and expensive ranchus jumped behind the plants during spawning and never came back out (found her 5 days later). Beware of too many males to females, the chase can get tiresome for the females. Who cares about the males when there are too many females, they will just chase whoever is around. One of my male ranchus jumped and got stuck in the door of the skimmer. He and 2 other males were chasing 1 female.....once again showing a problem of too many males to females. It's funny seeing a male ranchu, a male shubunkin and a male oranda all chasing the same female common.

So I predict the one female is gonna struggle.
 
Joined
Oct 9, 2012
Messages
6,275
Reaction score
2,795
Location
Plymouth
Hardiness Zone
7a
Country
United Kingdom
That is a lot of males that will be pounding on ONE female during spawning. Sometimes they do not survive.
Spawning is the roughest time for female koi and as Meyer has previously said sometimes they do not survive their ordeal at the hands of male koi .
Question Gemma do you know how to sex your koi or is this just guess work ?
Do you have a QT pond ?
Most koi people in the UK remove females and add two males plus spawning ropes and once the deed is done remove them from the QT pond and see what comesfrom the fertilized eggs, its far less of an ordeal for the female koi that way.
Koi however do not start spawning till they reach 10" or so .

Dave
 
Ad

Advertisements

Joined
Jun 8, 2016
Messages
2,977
Reaction score
2,840
Hardiness Zone
5b
Country
United States
Spawning is the roughest time for female koi and as Meyer has previously said sometimes they do not survive their ordeal at the hands of male koi .
Question Gemma do you know how to sex your koi or is this just guess work ?
Do you have a QT pond ?
Most koi people in the UK remove females and add two males plus spawning ropes and once the deed is done remove them from the QT pond and see what comesfrom the fertilized eggs, its far less of an ordeal for the female koi that way.
Koi however do not start spawning till they reach 10" or so .

Dave
what makes me think that I "might" have only 1 female, is the fact that when I introduced my latest purchase to the pond, all the other fish started chasing it, pushing it against the rocks just like males do during spawning, and this behavior has been my way of tell the difference between male and female.
I heard about the fins being rounder on females, but I've also heard that's not always a reliable way
I'm just hoping those young koi are just playing and some end up being females, or I'll have to re home my Sanke(n)
Forgot to add that catching fish in my pond is not an easy task, so the QT pond is not an option, if that turns out to be my only female the easiest thing to do will be to take her out.
 
Joined
Oct 9, 2012
Messages
6,275
Reaction score
2,795
Location
Plymouth
Hardiness Zone
7a
Country
United Kingdom
The way to sex koi is to look at the vent area you will see Female koi have a line running from head to tale which has another line running across it whilst the male koi do not have this cross piece they just have a running from head to tail Males are also sleeker than females .
Sometimes koi are just curious about new comes into the pond .
What worries me though is your lack of QT facilities you need tostart QTing your newcomers so why not build a small 550 gallon QT pond Gemma because it isnt worth the risk especially with the CyHV3 virus known by the name the Koi herpes virus which you do not want in your pond as there is no cure for it and it can take out up to 80% of your pond
Please read :-

https://www.gardenpondforum.com/articles/khv-cyhv3.27/

Dave
 
Joined
Jun 8, 2016
Messages
2,977
Reaction score
2,840
Hardiness Zone
5b
Country
United States
Oh my I had no idea about this virus!
The QT pond sounds like a good idea, I would definitely consider building one if I knew where, so I thought I could use the 500gl kid pool I bought to host the fish during the renovation.

Thank you for making me aware of that nasty virus!
 
Joined
Oct 9, 2012
Messages
6,275
Reaction score
2,795
Location
Plymouth
Hardiness Zone
7a
Country
United Kingdom
Its been around for quit a while and was at first kept quite about , there is an arguement as to where it first started out either Isreal or Japan over time its continued to mutate and there are lesser varients of this virus however if caught you must inform your fisheries department just as we have to here in the UK.
Then you either keep the survivors or kill them off or kept!!!!.... but if kept they would have to be kept in permanant QT with no new koi added ever because the survivors are also carriers of the virus , you would even have to use seperate equipment .
it would also mean the scrapping of the old pond lest it has had contact with the virus which it already has and everything must either be cleaned thouroughly and then dipped , puting the pond back together nuking the liner , then leaving the pond fallow for 6 months .as our health official found out when his koi fell foul of it [they had bought no koi in 10 years ].............Frightening Yes ?

Then think on this bit of information because its even more frightening why ? ......... because......... 10 years ago our entire club used the same dealership who we had known and trusted [they were KHV aware] but it somehow even found a way past their rigurous Heat ramping and QT proceedures and precautions :(

Dave
 
Last edited:

Meyer Jordan

Tadpole
Joined
Oct 10, 2014
Messages
7,177
Reaction score
5,650
Location
Pensacola, Florida
Hardiness Zone
9a
Country
United States
Its been around for quit a while and was at first kept quite about , there is an arguement as to where it first started out either Isreal or Japan over time its continued to mutate and there are lesser varients of this virus however if caught you must inform your fisheries department just as we have to here in the UK.
Then you either keep the survivors or kill them off or kept!!!!.... but if kept they would have to be kept in permanant QT with no new koi added ever because the survivors are also carriers of the virus , you would even have to use seperate equipment .
it would also mean the scrapping of the old pond lest it has had contact with the virus which it already has and everything must either be cleaned thouroughly and then dipped , puting the pond back together nuking the liner , then leaving the pond fallow for 6 months .as our health official found out when his koi fell foul of it [they had bought no koi in 10 years ].............Frightening Yes ?

Then think on this bit of information because its even more frightening why ? ......... because......... 10 years ago our entire club used the same dealership who we had known and trusted [they were KHV aware] but it somehow even found a way past their rigurous Heat ramping and QT proceedures and precautions :(

Dave
Dave, an important correction is needed here.
None of the Carp Herpes Virus (Cyhv1m Cyhv2, or Cyhv3) are reportable diseases in the U.S.
There is no requirement of reporting ANY outbreak, whether at a hobbyist level or at a commercial hatchery level.
 
Joined
Oct 9, 2012
Messages
6,275
Reaction score
2,795
Location
Plymouth
Hardiness Zone
7a
Country
United Kingdom
Dave, an important correction is needed here.
None of the Carp Herpes Virus (Cyhv1m Cyhv2, or Cyhv3) are reportable diseases in the U.S.
There is no requirement of reporting ANY outbreak, whether at a hobbyist level or at a commercial hatchery level.
How strange Meyer I've read of whole lakes of carp falling foul to this in the US, it affected the anglig trade in the UK as well as ornamental fish farms it was after these outbreaks that the Government of the UK made it reportable virus to Defra ,
Thanx for the correction my friend I asumed the US had followed suite

Dave
 

Meyer Jordan

Tadpole
Joined
Oct 10, 2014
Messages
7,177
Reaction score
5,650
Location
Pensacola, Florida
Hardiness Zone
9a
Country
United States
This is likely based on the accepted data that most of the freshwater ornamental fish sold in the U.S. are imported, so the economic value is very low. Add to this the fact If Carp were raised in the U.S. as a food source as it is in many countries, the rules would be quite different as the economic impact would be much greater.
 
Joined
Oct 9, 2012
Messages
6,275
Reaction score
2,795
Location
Plymouth
Hardiness Zone
7a
Country
United Kingdom
This is likely based on the accepted data that most of the freshwater ornamental fish sold in the U.S. are imported, so the economic value is very low. Add to this the fact If Carp were raised in the U.S. as a food source as it is in many countries, the rules would be quite different as the economic impact would be much greater.
You yourself know that this virus can take upwards of 80% of a lake out , all it takes is for someone to put one koi carrying the CYHV3 KHV virus [remember its a sleeper] and that is a cash crop gone to the owner of the fishery affected is it not ?
As such they should make it a reportable virus to your fisheries dept

Dave

DAve
 
Ad

Advertisements

Meyer Jordan

Tadpole
Joined
Oct 10, 2014
Messages
7,177
Reaction score
5,650
Location
Pensacola, Florida
Hardiness Zone
9a
Country
United States
You yourself know that this virus can take upwards of 80% of a lake out , all it takes is for someone to put one koi carrying the CYHV3 KHV virus [remember its a sleeper] and that is a cash crop gone to the owner of the fishery affected is it not ?
As such they should make it a reportable virus to your fisheries dept

Dave

DAve
Very true Dave, but for the fact that this virus only affects Cyprinus carpio (common carp). In the United States, this is a fish with practically no economic value. If it is in a lake or pond it is considered either a nuisance or invasive specie depending on the individual State, so anything that would eliminate it or reduce its numbers would not be considered a negative but a positive. Cyprinus carpio are only raised in the United States as ornamental fish....Koi. The chances are very remote that an infected Koi would be released into one of these hatcheries' rearing ponds. Their risk is in the lone imported collector Koi that may carry the latent virus.
 

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments. After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.

Ask a Question

Top