Does a 7.5pH help control, not stop, string algae ? Way to lower pH below 8pH ?

[crsublette]

I have read that string algae feeds on nitrates, phophates, and loves high pH.

API pH liquid drop vial chart says it is at or near 8.2.

My ground water from about 500 foot underground is quite hard. The pH is around 8.2 as well.

My water feature is at its second week of a fishless cycling process that is currently taking 5ppm of Amonium to around .25ppm in a little over a day. Nitrites are still a little high, but the water temps here have only been 51~70 degrees F so I figure the Nitrite-to-Nitrate bacteria are being slow to develop. I think the cycling is almost finished once my Nitrites zero out. Going to be about 8 feeder goldfish, Shunbunkin Comets I think, once every thing is balanced.

I am puting many water celery and maris tail and geting some sedge to help control the nitrates. Water trickle change, which is near 20% a week, to help control the phosphates and lingering nitrates.

From last night, using test strips and doing my best to match the strips with the color chart (such a pain) :
KH 225
GH 200
(( just now ordered the API's kh/gh test kit, hope to get it this Friday. ))

The water feature is 435 gallons. I have tried lowering my pH with a pH Decreaser. I dumped the entire 16oz bottle and pH has not gone down at all.

I have a 7.5 pH stabilizer buffer powder products that says it will keep the pH at 7.5 once it gets this low, but I have to first lower it to 7.5.

I would like to lower my pH but sounds like I need to lower my KH with Reverse Osmosis water (introducing soft water) if I want to lower it below a 8 pH. I have read this being done by show Koi hobbyists.

Very little string algae is starting to form. I just want to get a hold on this before my water becomes like some of the other waters I have read about with string algae problems.

I also have started this cycling with a weekly dosage regiment of decomposed barley extract to help slow the growth of the stuff.

Does a 7.5pH help control, not stop, string algae ?? Ways to lower pH below 8 ??

Any thoughts ??

 

[sissy]

Not sure but my ph is always 9 .liquid tests always better but I have a pet store who does it and gives you a print out and they showed me how they do it from the beginning and were completely honest so for 2.50 why not .I do have a liquid test kit too .My algae grows on my snails hmmm makes you wonder .Sometimes I see 3 of them on top of each other.I don't use those things they never work .

 

[crsublette]

Yeah, after dumping that bottle of pH decreaser and nothing changes. Never gonna buy that stuff again. I am starting to become skeptical if the buffer stabilizer powder will actually work whenever my high pH well water is introduced from water changes.

Funny about the snails,

 

[sissy]

I will not buy that stuff and don't think it works .i use crushed oyster shells and activated charcoal and zeolite that I buy as horse stall refresher .I buy dollar store finer green laundry bags and pour some in each and hang in my filter .Crushed oyster shells stabilize ph and activated charcoal helps purify and zeolite does just about the same thing .I get 3 lb bag of charcoal at pet mountain .com for less than 5 dollars .Crushed oyster shells and pdz at tractor supply for 10 dollars for 20 lbs

 

[Waterbug]

I have read that string algae feeds on nitrates, phophates, and loves high pH.

True.

The water feature is 435 gallons. I have tried lowering my pH with a pH Decreaser. I dumped the entire 16oz bottle and pH has not gone down at all.

pH decreaser does not exactly effect pH, it first effects the KH. Once KH gets lower then you'll see pH crash and jump around. KH acts as a pH buffer. I'm as big a skeptic as there is when it comes to products, however pH decreaser is a real simple, well understood concept and very cheap to produce. I'd be surprised if it didn't have an effect.

I have a 7.5 pH stabilizer buffer powder products that says it will keep the pH at 7.5 once it gets this low, but I have to first lower it to 7.5.

What product?

I would like to lower my pH but sounds like I need to lower my KH with Reverse Osmosis water (introducing soft water) if I want to lower it below a 8 pH. I have read this being done by show Koi hobbyists.

KH can be lowered cheaper ways. RO is normally used to lower GH, but of course KH is also lowered. Koi keepers think softer water improves color, especially white.

I also have started this cycling with a weekly dosage regiment of decomposed barley extract to help slow the growth of the stuff.

The barley myth. Normally barley doesn't do a lot of harm, but in new ponds the problems can be more noticeable because it's the only rotting thing in the pond. Can also tint the water yellow depending on the actual straw used. Just had a thread here on this very problem.

The extract is the safest to use because it's basically just water. You can make barley extract yourself and save some money. Take a 55 gal drum of water, add a few straws of barley, wait a few hours, or days, or however long you like, and you're done. You have 55 gal of barley extract. It's a very good business. And if you don't have any barley straw you can use lawn clippings, a tea bag or skip that part altogether.

Does a 7.5pH help control, not stop, string algae ??

That's really hard to say. My definition of control would be that it wasn't noticeable maybe. Messing with pH and nutrients might reduce total growth maybe 5% over the summer, maybe even 10% depending on species. If that meets your definition of control then yes.

Weekly or bi weekly pulling out the string algae can reduce growth in 50-80% range. It also allows for other species, maybe smaller species, a chance to grow more and hold back the longer species. Virtually all algae species produce allelochemicals which inhibits, even kills other species and bacteria. So pulling out the kind you don't like can help kinds that are more acceptable.

Ways to lower pH below 8 ??

Lots of ways. Sodium bisulfate, which is probably what your pH Decreaser was. Hydrochloric acid (Muriatic Acid). Lots of people like vinegar, I guess because it sounds safer to them, but you might need gallons of it.

Any thoughts ??

You've fallen for a common logic trap. String algae loves X so I'll reduce X. Sounds good, but the plant will still grow very well.

You have a 435 gal water feature, that's really small, meaning easy to weed. All these other things, like the pH stabilizer, are generally not one time things. To me you're trying to save a few minutes of weeding by spending hours screwing with pH that macro algaes are pretty much going to laugh at. That's my thoughts anyways.

If you really want to control macro algae without weeding I suggest an oxidizer like Baquacil. You still need a way to remove the dead algea as that looks even worst. Not a time or effort saver imo, but some people like messing around with such things.

 

[crsublette]

You've fallen for a common logic trap. String algae loves X so I'll reduce X. Sounds good, but the plant will still grow very well.

Hmmm, yeah, well, if other algae species and plants out competes the longer string algae for nutrients and doing a 20% trickle water change to further reduce nutrients, then it sounds like the longer string algae species will not grow very well. Oxidizers scare me a bit with how they can affect other biological variables, but I will look further into Baquacil. There might be enough nutrients for string algae to be very short, but I would not consider this to be "growing very well".

Weekly or bi weekly pulling out the string algae can reduce growth in 50-80% range. It also allows for other species, maybe smaller species, a chance to grow more and hold back the longer species. Virtually all algae species produce allelochemicals which inhibits, even kills other species and bacteria. So pulling out the kind you don't like can help kinds that are more acceptable.

Good advice. I will do that. Hopefully, the other species will grow so to outcompete the longer string algae species for nutrients.


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pH decreaser does not exactly effect pH, it first effects the KH. Once KH gets lower then you'll see pH crash and jump around. KH acts as a pH buffer. I'm as big a skeptic as there is when it comes to products, however pH decreaser is a real simple, well understood concept and very cheap to produce. I'd be surprised if it didn't have an effect.

According to the wacky test strips I have, the color best matches to the KH 300 level from water outlet. Right now, after a couple weeks of fishless cycling, the KH has dropped to 225. I am told KH is the inorganic carbon fueling nitrification so guess this is why KH has dropped. Plus, I am doing water changes from my high pH well water so figure KH goes up with this. I guess it has not dropped far enough yet for the pH Decreasers to change my pH. Grrr. can't wait for my API liquid test kit to get here.

What product?

7.5pH Buffer Stabilizer ... I am told tho this shouldn't be used to decrease the pH otherwise the water will get very cloudy. Think I am gonna junk this.

The barley myth. Normally barley doesn't do a lot of harm, but in new ponds the problems can be more noticeable because it's the only rotting thing in the pond. Can also tint the water yellow depending on the actual straw used. Just had a thread here on this very problem.

The extract is the safest to use because it's basically just water. You can make barley extract yourself and save some money. Take a 55 gal drum of water, add a few straws of barley, wait a few hours, or days, or however long you like, and you're done. You have 55 gal of barley extract. It's a very good business. And if you don't have any barley straw you can use lawn clippings, a tea bag or skip that part altogether.

Yeah, I skimmed the articles ya have sourced on your website. It appears the problem is that barley slows the growth of particular types of algae and nobody knows why, just got theories of why.

I can also make my own composted manure for my farm instead of buying it through a feedyard that performs microbial injections in its process or make my own composted fertilizers for my vegetable garden instead of buying compost at a retailer. The Microbe-Lift barley extract with peat, humates, and has more than just barley. It also has a flocculent to help reduce turbidity. It does not suggest the barley stops string algae. Meh, for the size of my water feature, costs me just a couple dollars a month.

That's really hard to say. My definition of control would be that it wasn't noticeable maybe. Messing with pH and nutrients might reduce total growth maybe 5% over the summer, maybe even 10% depending on species. If that meets your definition of control then yes.

Yeah, seems the quantity of reduction determines the quality of control. Sounds like ya are saying pH reduction quantity is low for string algae control so it is a poor control for string algae.

Lots of ways. Sodium bisulfate, which is probably what your pH Decreaser was. Hydrochloric acid (Muriatic Acid). Lots of people like vinegar, I guess because it sounds safer to them, but you might need gallons of it.

Yeah, also I have read that vinegar adds all sorts of extra organic compounds that the water will have to process. I am scared of Muriatic Acid since I am told ya gotta be very careful about dosage since just a small amount of the acid can cause the pH change.

 

[addy1]

brandonsdad just posted he used tetraponds algae remover and it worked................disclaimer I have never tried it

http://www.amazon.com/TetraPond-Algae-Control-Pond-Remover/dp/B002EO44D4?tag=duckduckgo-d-20

 

[j.w]

Here are the ingredients in the Tetra Pond Algae Control..............anybody know what this translates to in the real world?

Ingredients: 5.4% Poly [Oxyethylene, (Dimethyliminio) Ethylene (Dimethyliminio) Ethylene Dichloride]. Inert Ingredients: 94.6%.

 

[sissy]

If you make liguid barley from bales of barley in a tank you will need an aerator in there also .Just like as if you were making liquid fertilizer and the other one isn't that like ethylene glycol you use in radiators

 

[sissy]

don't understand that first one as that is a pesticide jw why pesticide

 

[j.w]

I dunno maybe a chemist will show up and explain

 

[Waterbug]

Your posts and details were impressive to me, so I'm posting this follow up not because I wish to make you mad, but because I think you have an open and functioning mind that can see this as my opinions for whatever that is worth.

Hmmm, yeah, well, if other algae species and plants out competes the longer string algae for nutrients and doing a 20% trickle water change to further reduce nutrients, then it sounds like the longer string algae species will not grow very well. ...There might be enough nutrients for string algae to be very short, but I would not consider this to be "growing very well".

Reducing nutrients to reduce algae is a myth outside of the lab. Set a bowl of distilled water outside, zero nutrients, and within a few weeks (keeping bowl topped off) you'll have algae growing. There's enough nutrients and algae in dust in the air. Yet pond keepers think they can some how reduce nutrients to reduce algae. Uncle.

I am told KH is the inorganic carbon fueling nitrification so guess this is why KH has dropped.

True, and it can consume an amazing amount.

Yeah, I skimmed the articles ya have sourced on your website. It appears the problem is that barley slows the growth of particular types of algae and nobody knows why, just got theories of why.

One lab showed barley slowed growth. Half a dozen US universities disproved that first study. In science a study has be confirmed before it is considered valid information. Barley failed that test.

I can also make my own composted manure for my farm instead of buying it through a feedyard that performs microbial injections in its process or make my own composted fertilizers for my vegetable garden instead of buying compost at a retailer. The Microbe-Lift barley extract with peat, humates, and has more than just barley. It also has a flocculent to help reduce turbidity. It does not suggest the barley stops string algae. Meh, for the size of my water feature, costs me just a couple dollars a month.

If you think something works for you then I say super. For many products it often isn't a question of working or not, it's question of whether the user thinks it's working. The goal is to be happy, how ever one gets there shouldn't matter.

Just FYI, flocculents required specific conditions, one of which is agitation quickly followed by filtering to remove the now larger particles. Flocculents break down pretty fast, like minutes although other chemicals can extend that a bit. It's another one of those things sellers add to products that sounds good, and can work under certain specific circumstances, but has no chance of doing any good in ponds.

Yeah, seems the quantity of reduction determines the quality of control. Sounds like ya are saying pH reduction quantity is low for string algae control so it is a poor control for string algae.

No control. Unless you get into ranges where no living things can survive. Algae is very good at what it does.

Yeah, also I have read that vinegar adds all sorts of extra organic compounds that the water will have to process.

Very true. But it's still the most popular acid used in ponds and the most commonly recommended in forums by a wide margin. It's all about what people "feel" is best, not what is actually best.

I am scared of Muriatic Acid since I am told ya gotta be very careful about dosage since just a small amount of the acid can cause the pH change.

It is a strong acid. It does require some level of thinking and attention to detail to use. However, this and your statement is just as true for any acid. We're only talking about amounts. And the opposite side is true too. You used a weaker acid and were very unhappy with the result. Not the acid's fault.

 

[Valerie reddick]

Hi all, well I guess I am really gonna be confused now, as I have never tested my water and do not know about the PH. How often should this been done and does everyone who has ponds do this and use charcoal and other stuff like that to control the water ph. I filled mine with city water last fall, threw some fish in there and then 4 koi and plants in at the begining of April. I thought I had done my research for a pond and got help from a few friends who have them but they dont have setups like most of you do.

 

[sissy]

CITY WATER oh dear .They must not treat your city water with much

 

[Waterbug]

How often should this been done and does everyone who has ponds do this and use charcoal and other stuff like that to control the water ph.

Very few people test water and many who say they do, don't. Koi and Goldfish can take a lot of abuse and generally pH swings kill fish slowly, one at a time. It's easier to think the fish died of something other than poor water quality than to test and maintain even fair water quality. Plus you have everyone and their brother telling people all kinds of wacked out stuff to "improve water" so it's really hard to get through all that and figure out that keeping good water is actually pretty easy.

Plus fish in water gardens are pretty cheap. In higher end ponds where fish cost hundreds, thousands of dollars the keepers are much more motivated to keep good water quality. People with cheaper fish still love their pets, but not as much it seems.

If you're interested Google "pond pH buffering". Lots of info and most of it pretty good on this subject. You will learn you don't really need to test pH if you test and maintain KH and GH.