Does anybody else have this issue?

Discussion in 'Fish & Koi Talk' started by ididntdoit99, Jul 2, 2012.

  1. ididntdoit99

    ididntdoit99 ididntdoit99

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    My rocks are in the water, I have a small shelf, 6-8 inches down, and the rock sit in the water so no liner shows. I had it that way last year, and when I rebuilt the pond this year, I did the same thing. I have had fish get in between the rocks and get stuck on 3 occasions so far this year, and I had my first fatality from it this weekend.

    First time, i had a silver koi missing for over a week, I searched for him, looked in big gaps in the rocks, couldn’t find him. Well I topped off the pond when the weekend rolled around, and suddenly the next morning he is back. tore up on his sides, and missing part of his tail fin, but alive and well, it’s been a few weeks now and he healed up fine.

    Second time, again, I was topping off the pond, and in between 2 rocks, water is splashing out... lift up a few rocks and one of my goldfish (black) is stuck in there, swims out, floats down to the bottom and lays there, I was sure he was dead. Go back a few hours later he is swimming around, he is now my black fish with a white side because his side was pretty torn up from being stuck there. Not sure how long he was missing, the goldfish I don’t keep track if very well, but I notice when a koi goes missing.

    Now this weekend I notice my yellow butterfly is missing... not sure for how long, must have been sometime during the week when I was working and usually toss in food and head off. Well of course I grab the hose... he's stuck in the rocks somewhere, better get him some more water to swim out. No go, not this time, he’s gone, and the bad thing is I still can't find his body, just way too many nooks and crannies he could be in.

    Anyway... I never had this issue last year and the koi were much smaller then, maybe that is the difference they were small enough to get out easily then, but now they are at that point where they are still small enough to get in, but can’t get back out. There are probably 4-5 of them that could still get in between rocks if they wanted, I’m sure by the end of the summer they will be big enough it won’t be an issue, but I don’t want to lose any more. And I’d like to try to find another butterfly to replace the one I lost, but then I’m just going to worry about the same thing until he grows up too.

    I guess I could go get some netting or something to block off the rock shelf for a while, but it sounds like a pain, and an eyesore. And there will always be new fish spawning, so it’s not like it just temporary until the koi I have get bigger. Has anybody else had this issue? Maybe I just didn’t spend as much time stacking rocks this year when I rebuilt the pond as I did the first time, I left too many big gaps.
     
    ididntdoit99, Jul 2, 2012
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  2. ididntdoit99

    Waterbug

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    I've lost fish that got jammed into rocks.
     
    Waterbug, Jul 2, 2012
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  3. ididntdoit99

    buckry

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    No, but this is one of the reasons I didn't put rocks under water. Thanks for confirming this could happen. Having a little bit of liner showing in a few areas is worth it to not kill fish.
     
    buckry, Jul 2, 2012
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  4. ididntdoit99

    mrsclem mrsclem

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    I don't have rocks in my ponds but I have had fish get trapped in milk crates when they tried to swim thru. Also had them get stuck in netting that was touching the water. Rescued 3 frogs yesterday that got stuck in netting.
     
    mrsclem, Jul 3, 2012
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  5. ididntdoit99

    j.w I Love my Goldies

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    I don't know if it's ever happened to any of my fish like that or not in my new pond. All mine are goldfish and most are all orange so wouldn't know to miss one unless it was one of my white or oj/white ones or shubbies. Something like that happened several yrs ago when I was tearing down one pond and building my new one. The rocks were still around the old pond when I was draining the old pond down to catch the fish. Some of the fish went and hid in the rocks and when the water went down lower than where they were they died overnight in the rocks cuz I didn't know they were in there. Made me really unhappy :sad:
    You could maybe sprinkle some pea gravel in between the holes so they can't get very far back in there. Might be more work than you want to do and koi might just drag them all out and make a big mess! Guess when placing the rocks we should pick our rocks so they fit so tightly together that bigger fish can't get in the spaces. Kinda hard to do that tho. I guess you either have to forget the rocks or live w/ the catastrophe's.
     
    j.w, Jul 3, 2012
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  6. ididntdoit99

    blessedfamily

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    I have had it happen when I'm cleaning the pond out :(. They go hide and you don't know they are missing until its too late. Not sure how to fix it without mortaring the rocks??
     
    blessedfamily, Jul 3, 2012
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  7. ididntdoit99

    JenH

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    Well, knock on wood, I haven't had this problem yet. I have a shelf that is 12" down, the edge of that shelf I have larger canteloupe sized river rocks around the whole outter shelf edge then I have smaller #5 river rock filling infrom where the side goes up to the ring of larger rocks. The fish nudge the rocks, but can't do anything else. At the very bottom I have the larger river rock around the whole outside of the deep part (wanted to keep the liner from floating if our water table gets high) and then the rest of the bottom covered with the smaller river rock. I just don't think there is anywhere for them to hide in there. I do have a milk crate holding up my lotus. But we cut out one side so that they could easily swim in and out. Sorry you are losing your fish :(
     
    JenH, Jul 3, 2012
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  8. ididntdoit99

    ididntdoit99 ididntdoit99

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    I have killed one fish, but how many does it save too? Its a great place for fry to hide in from the big fish until they get large enough to not get eaten, that was my reasoning behind it, and for aesthetic reasons.
     
    ididntdoit99, Jul 3, 2012
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  9. ididntdoit99

    buckry

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    That's another good reason not to do it then, I don't want fry. You're making me feel better and better all the time.

    But yeah, if someone wants fry that's probably a really decent place for them to hide, of course big ponds probably have no less than thousands of places to hide that you and I would never think of.
     
    buckry, Jul 3, 2012
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  10. ididntdoit99

    ididntdoit99 ididntdoit99

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    Go get yourself a couple bluegill.... even with all of the hiding places, I only have two little goldfish left from last year, my bluegill loves to chase fry all day long.
     
    ididntdoit99, Jul 3, 2012
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  11. ididntdoit99

    buckry

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    See, if I end up with 2 new fish a year, I can handle that, but any more and I just don't know what to do with them. I don't know anyone else with a pond, and I'm sure the market around here is terrible. I found out we do have a local pet store that just opened, so I might ask him if he wants to buy a couple of young fish each year, but I feel like the chances of that are pretty slim.
     
    buckry, Jul 3, 2012
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  12. ididntdoit99

    fishin4cars True friends just call me Larkin Moderator

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    Letting the babies raise in the pond i wouldn't expect a very big survival rate. In years past 1-12 babies a year is about all I got just letting them do there thing naturally. Pulling eggs and fry and raising them seperatly you will get a more babies. As for getting rid of, If your only getting rid of a few here and ther it's usually no problem to give a few babies away. you would be surprised how many people out there will contact you for a free/cheap koi. Craigslist ar a newspaper ad actually does very well.
    As for the rocks in the pond. there are so many disadvantages to having rocks in the pond. yes they do make the pond more natural looking if they are kept clean, in a algae covered pond they are not that noticable. Smooth rocks like river rock seems to do better as far as the fish getting back out between the rocks. My guess is because of the smooth sides of the rock doesn't catch the scales and fins as bad as jagged edged rocks do.
     
    fishin4cars, Jul 3, 2012
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  13. ididntdoit99

    ididntdoit99 ididntdoit99

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    I also have an aquarium inside with a green terror in it, so I can also cut down on the fry population by scooping them out and bringing them inside.

    My grandparents seem to have tons of new goldfish every year, its seems like they will have problems with overpopulation soon. They are always trying to get me to take more, but i tell them no, i have koi, and the goldfish i have now are fine, i dont need to add any more goldfish, they produce just fine on thier own.

    They have a stand at the farmers market... i told them they need to sell 10 cent goldfish down there, as im sure lots of people who attend have nice garden ponds.
     
    ididntdoit99, Jul 3, 2012
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  14. ididntdoit99

    buckry

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    Yeah, maybe. I'm in a small city, about 20,000 and I'm sure there are people out there with ponds, but none of our large stores carry much of anything for ponds. We have a little bit of stuff at a farm supply store and a little bit at Home Depot. Walmart sells koi, but that's it, no supplies. The local pet store I found has aquarium stuff mostly. I've bought 99% of my stuff including all of my koi online.

    But yeah, maybe the fact that he local shops are so poorly stocked, maybe I can become a breeder and supply my whole county. We'll see, fish are too small to spawn yet anyway, but they'll be trying soon enough.
     
    buckry, Jul 3, 2012
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  15. ididntdoit99

    ididntdoit99 ididntdoit99

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    I think my biggest issue is right here, about 8 or so feet long of rock shelf that i just made too plain big... and not quite as deep as the rest of the rock shelf. the rocks here are barely in the water. And after a week or so, the liner is actually above water, which lets me know its time to top the pond back off.

    OMG... just got a text from my fiance.. she found the yellow butterfly stuck under a rock, alive!!! she said he's mostly white from scratching up against the rock... but alive, hopefully like the other two he will pull through.

    [attachment=45091:305508_10150868127061057_654711056_11889397_1151152983_n2.jpg
     

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    ididntdoit99, Jul 3, 2012
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  16. ididntdoit99

    ididntdoit99 ididntdoit99

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    well i guess i cant say that that is the problem area, she found him under a rock over on the other side of the pond, just standing on the dock and looked down and saw a little yellow in between the rocks.
     
    ididntdoit99, Jul 3, 2012
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  17. ididntdoit99

    j.w I Love my Goldies

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    So glad you found your fish!
    If you have big spaces where they can get in I would take some smaller rocks and stuff them in the spaces and try to stop them from being able to get in there. Just cram them in there when you have the time so that it's not easy for them to pull the rocks out. You don't have to do it all in one day. I think now in my area around the edge only my very small fry can get into the spaces now. I have shoved smaller rocks in there to keep the bigger fish out. I think it's working. They can only get their noses in now and not half or all of their bodies.
     
    j.w, Jul 3, 2012
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  18. ididntdoit99

    ididntdoit99 ididntdoit99

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    Yep I think I'm going to start working on that tomorow, this is getting ridiculous. Dang nosey fish.
     
    ididntdoit99, Jul 3, 2012
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  19. ididntdoit99

    buckry

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    Do fry ever swim into areas, then grow in there and not be able to get out?
     
    buckry, Jul 3, 2012
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  20. ididntdoit99

    j.w I Love my Goldies

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    If they do since they never came out I wouldn't know unless another one squealed on them :dunno:
     
    j.w, Jul 3, 2012
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