Electrical headache!!

[mrsclem]

MY head hurts from thinking and I need some ideas. I got up this morning and when I checked the pond cam, the pumps were not running. Dashed down to basement to check breaker, no problems there. Next down to the ponds and checked the GFIs. both were tripped and would not reset. No problem, just replace both GFIs. Still no power. We had a section of the main wire that was exposed next to the house that had been damaged so repaired that and STILL no power. camera wires were worked on a couple of days ago and in the area of the junction box in the basement. All connections solid but redone anyway. BTW- breaker in basement swapped out and works fine. After rechecking every connection we finally got power. Lasted until we swapped out the extension cord and started to power up both ponds. New GFIs both kicked out and will not reset.
I hope someone has an idea as to what is going on before I just rip out everything from the breaker box and run all new wire and outlets.

 

[Tula]

I'd have to call an electrician, as I know nothing about electricity. Could the problem be the extension cord? Is the "pull" of both ponds , too much for the breaker? Hope you can figure it out quickly.

 

[Marshall]

The GFI outlets/units may not be sufficient in that application. Try splitting the load across more GFI outlets and see if that helps. Also make sure the breaker is not too large for the outlets as this would mean the GFI would overload but the larger breaker would not recognise any issue and continue to feed power to them.

 

[mrsclem]

This setup has been running for 5 years. Using an extension cord now but that brings up something hadn't thought of before. I do have a couple of short extension cords in use and we did get heavy rain the other day so will unplug those and see if that helps. Going to replace the breaker as it is 10+ years old and could be going bad. The GFIs were replaced this morning bud didn't consider the rating on them as they were supposed to be installed elsewhere. Hubby and I have racked our brains all morning and I don't even know what planet I'm on now!!

 

[Marshall]

This setup has been running for 5 years. Using an extension cord now but that brings up something hadn't thought of before. I do have a couple of short extension cords in use and we did get heavy rain the other day so will unplug those and see if that helps. Going to replace the breaker as it is 10+ years old and could be going bad. The GFIs were replaced this morning bud didn't consider the rating on them as they were supposed to be installed elsewhere. Hubby and I have racked our brains all morning and I don't even know what planet I'm on now!!

If you are anywhere near me then the planet is called Mars...

 

[Marshall]

Also keep in mind that a grounded faulty circuit interrupter(GFCI) is only designed to prevent electrical shock in wet conditions and therefor it might be interpreting a fault due to a surge from a too high amp rated breaker as a fault or a short circuit. I had to take electrical certification when I got my computer science degree and we briefly studied GFCI as it is not that useful in computing but I do know breakers and how the amperage works very well and outside an actual water fault on the GFCI that is most likely the issue. If you replace the breaker with the same larger amp size it may eventually fry the fault interrupt outlet mechanisms completely. Hope that helps as I am not the best at explaining things but if you have questions just ask.

 

[Mmathis]

Electrical stuff is beyond my comprehension, but is the ext. cord rated for that particular load? [or both, since you said it was 2 smaller ones] Hope you figure it out!

 

[mrsclem]

Also keep in mind that a grounded faulty circuit interrupter(GFCI) is only designed to prevent electrical shock in wet conditions and therefor it might be interpreting a fault due to a surge from a too high amp rated breaker as a fault or a short circuit. I had to take electrical certification when I got my computer science degree and we briefly studied GFCI as it is not that useful in computing but I do know breakers and how the amperage works very well and outside an actual water fault on the GFCI that is most likely the issue. If you replace the breaker with the same larger amp size it may eventually fry the fault interrupt outlet mechanisms completely. Hope that helps as I am not the best at explaining things but if you have questions just ask.

I have forgotten most of the electrical I used to know. Checked the GFIs installed this morning and they are 15 amp. The breaker in the basement is 20 amp. That the problem?

Electrical stuff is beyond my comprehension, but is the ext. cord rated for that particular load? [or both, since you said it was 2 smaller ones] Hope Got you figure it out!

Heavy duty outdoor extension cords cause the ground stake outlets only have 3 foot cords but rain water has caused problems before. Off to Lowes in am for 2 new GFIs and 20 amp breaker.
Got back in from checking on things and now air conditioner not working! Breaker off, hoping it was bumped while working on box and not another problem! Going to chill out with a glass of wine and try to forget about all this.

 

[Mmathis]

Oh, my! This is not your day at all! Gotta get rid of those little Gremlins!

 

[mrsclem]

Started Friday at 3:30 am when hubbys c-pap machine died and then an hour later one of our 5 water alarms started beeping with low battery. Didn't get much sleep and then this. Must be gremlins!

 

[Meyer Jordan]

I would eliminate the extension cords. Running a circuit to the pond will be cheaper and less trouble in the long run.

 

[Marshall]

I have forgotten most of the electrical I used to know. Checked the GFIs installed this morning and they are 15 amp. The breaker in the basement is 20 amp. That the problem?

Heavy duty outdoor extension cords cause the ground stake outlets only have 3 foot cords but rain water has caused problems before. Off to Lowes in am for 2 new GFIs and 20 amp breaker.
Got back in from checking on things and now air conditioner not working! Breaker off, hoping it was bumped while working on box and not another problem! Going to chill out with a glass of wine and try to forget about all this.

Although 15 Amp & 20 Amp seems like a small difference this is actually quite relevant because a breaker and an interrupter do two mechanically similar things but they do them for different reasons. So the short answer is yes, that is a problem but I would recommend you try and bring the outlets up 5 amps before taking the breaker down. More amperage means you have more room for expansion in the future if you add more load to the circuit.

 

[Marshall]

PS: Don't go with anything over 30 Amp as this would be ridiculous for a pond location unless you plan on putting in a carnival ride

 

[mrsclem]

I would eliminate the extension cords. Running a circuit to the pond will be cheaper and less trouble in the long run.

Although 15 Amp & 20 Amp seems like a small difference this is actually quite relevant because a breaker and an interrupter do two mechanically similar things but they do them for different reasons. So the short answer is yes, that is a problem but I would recommend you try and bring the outlets up 5 amps before taking the breaker down. More amperage means you have more room for expansion in the future if you add more load to the circuit.

We have a line run to the pond area to a pole with outdoor metal gfi boxes with switches. Problem is with 2 ponds I need to be able to run pumps, air and lights so use the 6 outlet ground stakes and they have short cords. Going to see what I can find to replace those.
Getting GFIs back up to 20 amps like the old ones and replacing the old breaker as it is 10+ years of use. Hoping this will solve the problem. This caused a lot of problems as I had my bog and 2 filters backflush into the ponds as well as a failure of a check valve on my air pump which got filled with water!

 

[Tula]

Hoping things settle down now