Electrical question

[Beercan31]

I didn't know where to post this so I put it here. move it to where you feel fit.

my pond is run by a 220 gfi system and a 110v separate circuit.
220 is for pump only
110 is for thermometer and music.

knowing a 220 volts system is a unbalanced meaning it does not have or use a neutral but it does and must have a ground, and it does.
a 220v gfi (ground fault interrupter) breaker uses 3 wires, 2 hots and a neutral if the neutral is connected anywhere in the system the breaker trips, it's seeing a fault because of a no neutral. from the breaker box in the house I have ran a 8/3 with a ground yes it's a little over kill but it's what I had in surplus. about 60 feet to a weather proof enclosure with a timer box aka lil gray box. I use this as a master switch (220) to kill all electric in the pump pit when servicing.

if I get a large sudden rain fall the breaker will trip, at best that I can figure. it also could be a small indifference in the 220v leads causing the trip and not enough to trip the transfer switch on the generator. I am thinking the breaker has become weak over time and or the gfi breaker not using its neutral it might not be working properly. I am Leary taking out the gfi and installing a bridged or tandem breaker to eliminate the unusual tripping but also concerned about any spikes getting to the pump motor and damaging it.

Thoughts, comments, concerns?

 

[GBBUDD]

When it comes to water gfci 220 or 230 .I'd call an electrician.

GFCI DO GO BAD

You sure your pump is 220 and not 230? that could be the problem

 

[Beercan31]

When it comes to water gfci 220 or 230 .I'd call an electrician.

GFCI DO GO BAD

You sure your pump is 220 and not 230? that could be the problem

Hold on I'll go put a meter on the legs...sorry you had to wait but my DVM had a dead battery. I measured at the gray box outside, it's 27* so if I type an octave higher you'll know why.

I got a reading of 127-131v the meter would not settle down, probably from my shivering.

 

[GBBUDD]

looks like it will run on 115 or 230 , it seems your already wired for 230 within the pump not 220

 

[Beercan31]

looks like it will run on 115 or 230 , it seems your already wired for 230 within the pump not 220

In North America, the terms 220V, 230V, and 240V all refer to the same system voltage level

 

[combatwombat]

I’m a bit out of my depth regarding GFCI on 220 circuits, but do you have the pigtail on the breaker connected to the neutral bar in the panel? My understanding is that you must connect the pigtail even if the circuit is not using neutral.

And is the breaker in your main panel or a sub panel?

 

[combatwombat]

BTW, I’m dealing with a similar issue on an outdoor 120 circuit at my place. A little research tells me that large weather events can cause voltage fluctuations. Maybe that could have something to do with it?

 

[Beercan31]

BTW, I’m dealing with a similar issue on an outdoor 120 circuit at my place. A little research tells me that large weather events can cause voltage fluctuations. Maybe that could have something to do with it?

The breaker is in the main panel.
I had a good conference when his company that installed the generator and transfer switch. he looked at my installation and all connections and circuits and said they are done to NEC spec. He also thought the gfi might be weak.

I'll just bite the bullet and buy a new gfi breaker.

I will also go threw the transfer switch spec sheet to see how sensitive it is to damaging spikes that will harm the pump motor. this with a gfi would be double coverage in protection.

I was just trying to be lazy and not having to reset the breaker every time it trips. after a nights sleep and reviewing responses eliminating the gfi protecting the pond was a bad idea on my part and will not happen. putting a dollar value on safety is not an option.

 

[poconojoe]

It could be that there actually is a problem with the motor and the GFCI is just doing its job.
It could also be that the breaker is indeed bad. It does happen.

I gather from your post that there is no neutral wire from the breaker to the motor. If there were a neutral wire and it came in contact with ground, that condition would trip the GFCI.

The GFCI line side neutral wire needs to be connected to the panel's neutral bar for the GFCI to function. The GFCI will function fine without a neutral connected to it's load side.

Note:
A 2 pole 240 volt circuit is not "unbalanced" as you said. You don't need a neutral for it to be balanced. It is balanced between the two hot legs.

Hope you find the problem.
It can be very frustrating when there are multiple possible solutions.
Hopefully it's just a bad breaker and your problem will be solved.
Just be careful.