Emergency low kh

[marsha]

Can someone tell me how much baking soda to use in a 350 gallon pond,thanks

 

[MitchM]

What is your KH reading?

 

[morewater]

I haven't done this in quite a while, but I seem to recall the general rule of thumb to be about 1/4 cup per 1000 gallons?

I think I'd play it safe and do it once, then check the pH before re-dosing the next day. Keep in mind that ammonia becomes more and more toxic as the pH increases, so you really should check your ammonia level before raising the pH using baking soda. Check your ammonia level again before re-dosing the next day or so.

You really should figure out why your pH dropped so far and so fast that you feel you have to adjust it upwards (Mitch asked for the hardness value, which should be between 150-200ppm). Are you topping up with softened water? If so, not good for the bacteria. Once the bacteria are fried, there goes the balance (another reason to never pressure wash a liner and the stones in the pond).

Are you just adding baking soda because someone told you that you should?

 

[barryian]

Can someone tell me how much baking soda to use in a 350 gallon pond,thanks

Actually, it's 1/2 cup of baking soda per 1000 gallons. In your case, 350 gallons, that 1/4 to 1/3 cup would be safe. As Morewater said, you want to keep it up around 150 - 200ppm, especially with a bead filter. This time of year, the kH is used up quickly as the bead filter matures. Being my ph is a stable 8.3- 8.2 at all times, i can boost my kH by adding 16 ounces of baking soda at once.
BUT, you must have the ph within .3 of 8.4 to do that. Otherwise, it would be every 24 hours. Also, being redundant, the ammonia is quite toxic at that ph so if your pH rises, which it will, keep an ammonia neutralizer around.

Now, let's say you get a kH test kit and it only gives you your kH readings in degrees of hardness. To convert degrees of hardness to PPM, simply multiply by 17.9. For example, if your kit tells you your kH is 5 in degrees of hardness, simply multiply 5 times 17.9 to get the equivalent in PPM. In this case the PPM would be 89.5 PPM.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Need to know base-line values of the water quality parameters (Ph, KH and maybe GH) before any meaningful advice can be given.

 

[MitchM]

It can't be that much of an emergency.

 

[crsublette]

Before ya do anything... Check your ammonia levels.

0.25ppm TAN (total ammonia nitrogen) is safe to fish at low carbonate KH levels; however, 0.25ppm TAN becomes much more toxic to fish as carbonate KH increases.


Even though I say to wait 24 hours in my instructions below, if you do have noticeable TAN at low carbonate KH levels, I would wait a few days between carbonate KH dosages so to allow your microbes to catch up. Increasing carbonate KH will feed your microbes to grow and consume that ammonia, but this does not happen fast.


Also... all of this assumes your pond gallonage is absolutely correct... If your gallons is off 50 gallons, then this can make a big difference in proper dosage...


There are many forms of KH that impact pH differently... So, when talking about using baking soda (common stuff used), we are talking about carbonate KH.

Can someone tell me how much baking soda to use in a 350 gallon pond,thanks

Carbonate Alkalinity KH - Baking Soda calculator - http://www.koiphen.com/forums/koicalcs.php?do=calckh

If your carbonate KH test says carbonate KH is less than 125ppm (7 dKH), then... Just increase carbonate KH slow... 1 degree (or 17ppm ish) every 24 hours.... this is due to pH changes when going from zero or very low carbonate KH until you reach 7 dKH (125ppm). So just do the dosage slow until you reach 7dKH, which should be around 8.0pH. After that, further carbonate KH pushes the pH up until 8.4ish pH and end around about there depending on your calcium levels. If calcium levels are low, then the pH could go up to around 8.8~9.0ish; do one dose of calcium chloride to see if the pH goes down to around 8.5ish (if it doesn't, no worries and don't add anymore calcium chloride).

Tough to be exact with how carbonate KH impacts your pH since everyone's water has different contanimants in it. With 7dKH, some folk's pH can be 8.3 and others around 7.9, depending on what else is in the water....


@marsha I have written many posts that explains this in various ways about KH, baking soda, calcium chloride, etc, etc. So, if you want to know more, then just do a search in this forum.


Hope this helps!!!

 

[Meyer Jordan]

0.25ppm TAN (total ammonia nitrogen) is safe to fish at low carbonate KH levels; however, 0.25ppm TAN becomes much more toxic to fish as carbonate KH increases.

0.25ppm TAN even at a ph of 8.0 is still safe for fish (even at higher ph at low temperatures). Toxicity will become an issue at TAN levels of 0.50ppm or higher.

 

[crsublette]

0.25ppm TAN even at a ph of 8.0 is still safe for fish (even at higher ph at low temperatures). Toxicity will become an issue at TAN levels of 0.50ppm or higher.

http://www.koiphen.com/forums/koicalcs.php?do=calcnh3c

0.25 TAN, 60*F, 8.6 pH.... fish toxic NH3 of 0.026 starts to be a concern..

0.25 TAN, 80*F, 8.6 pH... fish toxic NH3 of 0.056 shouldn't be ignored.

A small pond, such as Marsha's, can easily reach a water temperature of 80*F. My 430 gallon pond does quite often during Summer and I am in just a 6b zone. Marsha is in an even warmer 7a zone and, if Delware is more humid, then more llikely the water temperature could remain steady.

You are correct in that... 0.25 TAN, at 8.0pH, cooler temperature of 60*F... then NH3 is at 0.007 and quite safe.

Stability point for the bicarbonate/carbonate buffer is around 8.4 pH... a little higher or lower depending on source water.

City water has a tendency to go on the higher side due to water treatment, even if calcium is at proper levels.

Due to Marsha's small water volume, in zone 7a, and possibility of her using municipal water for the pond... can be quite realistic that, at above 7dKH, her carbonate pH stability point could reach 8.6pH, with proper calcium levels, and a potential water temperature of 80*F.

 

[crsublette]

Here's a thread where I talked about ammonia toxicity further also involving a study testing the various ammonia levels on koi.

https://www.gardenpondforum.com/threads/an-ammonia-question-a-reading-from-the-strip.14127/

This is the only persuasion I am aware of at this moment...

I am completely open to be persuaded otherwise to another persuasion, but probably best to do it in another thread rather than getting off topic in this thread.

 

[Dave 54]

@marsha There is a product by Kusuri that is made from calcified sea weed which once placed in your filter will keep your Kh at the level you want it also stablizes your Ph at the same time, its called Lithaqua :-

http://kusuri.co.uk/kusuri-products/kusuri-lithaqua/

I believe it is now available in the US hope this helps

Dave

 

[marsha]

Just wanted to thank everyone for the replies, unfortunately I have had computer problems and just got it back today. On the bright side I was able to find some notes I had on raising Kh , I added 3 tablespoons of baking soda once a day for 3 or 4 days and its now at 125.3, the ph is 8.5 and ammonia is 0. I stopped adding the baking soda after it got to 125.3 since this is usually were it has been the last 4 years. Should it be ok now? I didn't want to over do anything.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Just wanted to thank everyone for the replies, unfortunately I have had computer problems and just got it back today. On the bright side I was able to find some notes I had on raising Kh , I added 3 tablespoons of baking soda once a day for 3 or 4 days and its now at 125.3, the ph is 8.5 and ammonia is 0. I stopped adding the baking soda after it got to 125.3 since this is usually were it has been the last 4 years. Should it be ok now? I didn't want to over do anything.

kH of 125 is OK. I would monitor it periodically and add more Baking Soda when needed. You should not have a problem in the future in this area.

 

[marsha]

kH of 125 is OK. I would monitor it periodically and add more Baking Soda when needed. You should not have a problem in the future in this area.

Great, thanks!