External Pump Placement

[randdusing]

Hello,

Apologies if this is a basic question, but I've searched Google and this site to no avail. I have an external pump at the bottom of my pond. I would like to move the pump closer to the top of the waterfall, so that it can be more easily concealed. Would moving the pump to a higher elevation cause any issues such as drop in efficiency / performance?

Thanks,
Rand

 

[brokensword]

Hello,

Apologies if this is a basic question, but I've searched Google and this site to no avail. I have an external pump at the bottom of my pond. I would like to move the pump closer to the top of the waterfall, so that it can be more easily concealed. Would moving the pump to a higher elevation cause any issues such as drop in efficiency / performance?

Thanks,
Rand

you mean submersible; if you put an external pump beneath your pond surface, you'd electrocute anything living there.

In answer to your question; pump flow/pressure/force is the same at any depth BELOW the surface. Head pressure only begins (and its force affected) when you lift the water over the surface.

Too, lifting your pump off the bottom keeps any sediment/large particles from clogging your filter system faster.

If you want even better pump performance, try this pro trick; put an adaptor that is TWICE the size of the current outlet size. Then put in a wye, then reduce to the original outlet size. This gives you TWO leads now (for whatever purpose you want) and the output of each is better than if you only had one outlet lead. Strange, I know, and I doubted this but after trying it, I was a believer. Tip came from a pond pro in Alabama.

Anyway, hope this helps; you're cleared to go!

 

[brokensword]

Hello,

Apologies if this is a basic question, but I've searched Google and this site to no avail. I have an external pump at the bottom of my pond. I would like to move the pump closer to the top of the waterfall, so that it can be more easily concealed. Would moving the pump to a higher elevation cause any issues such as drop in efficiency / performance?

Thanks,
Rand

hold on; I just reread and am confused; you have a submersible if it's at your pond bottom, but you want to put this at the TOP of your waterfall? This would mean you now have to 'pull' water. Most water pumps are built to 'push' water, so yes, you'll impact the whole system if you do this. i'd just place the pump near the falls but in the pond proper. There's many ways to disguise a pump but seldom do we get posts requesting this as most pumps get algae covered and are already some dark color, so it's usually hard to see in the first place. The piping/tubing is more readily seen than the pump, actually. What exactly is the problem that you want to camoflauge the pump?


[edit] I think I'm understanding, though your description is confusing. I'm assuming now that you DO have an external, it is NOT at the bottom of your pond but rather, at pond-surface level to one side while your falls is higher. Okay; this Will affect but am unsure how much as the pump will now 'pull' from a higher position. I have a submersible so not much experience with externals. I'll let @addy1 take a swing at this question as she employs an external, too. My first inclination is you'll have more issues priming but not sure if it also makes the loss of prime easier (which would be more problematic for you)

 

[addy1]

Mine is external, with the pond being built on a slope the top of my pump is level with the water level. No issues with priming, no check valve, handles power outs without a issue.

In AZ this same pump was higher than the water level, there I had to have a check valve to keep it running with power outs.

 

[Mmathis]

Hello and welcome!

I, too, am confused. External is “outside” of the pond, IOW, not actually in the water. Please clarify this for us.

 

[poconojoe]

And....
Your pump, if submersible or your intake, if your pump is external, should be on the opposite side of your pond in relation to your return water.
You dont want to pick up the "clean" water that has recently been filtered. You want to pick up the water from the other side of the pond.

 

[brokensword]

And....
Your pump, if submersible or your intake, if your pump is external, should be on the opposite side of your pond in relation to your return water.
You dont want to pick up the "clean" water that has recently been filtered. You want to pick up the water from the other side of the pond.

if they're using an external underwater, it may not matter where it is, PJ...

 

[randdusing]

Oops, I should have been much more clear. The pump is on land, above the water level, but at the "bottom" of the pond furthest from the waterfall.

If I move the pump to the top, is the main concern if losing prime and having to refill a lot of pipe? My check valve tends to get clogged with snails and leaves, but I'm hoping that will be less likely if I upgrade the skimmer.

 

[poconojoe]

Oops, I should have been much more clear. The pump is on land, above the water level, but at the "bottom" of the pond furthest from the waterfall.

If I move the pump to the top, is the main concern if losing prime and having to refill a lot of pipe? My check valve tends to get clogged with snails and leaves, but I'm hoping that will be less likely if I upgrade the skimmer.

I'm still not sure what you are saying about the pump being "above the water level, but at the bottom of the pond". That statement, to me, is contradicting.
I'm thinking you mean the pump is on land and the intake hose/pipe is on the bottom of the pond.

Keep your intake hose/pipe off the bottom of the pond so it won't suck in snails and other large debris that may prematurely clog your filter.

 

[combatwombat]

Pumps are designed to push water, not pull it. So the longer you make your intake pipe, the worse the pump will perform. Externals perform best when the intake line is short.

 

[poconojoe]

Ok, re-reading your statement and then reading what @combatwombat stated, I think I understand now.
You want to move the external pump from ground level to a higher level, on top of the waterfall to better hide it.

I get it....sometimes it's hard to express exactly what we mean through our keyboards/keypads! It happens to all of us!

As @combatwombat has stated, keep the pipe run as short as possible.

And, as I stated, keep the intake off the bottom so it doesn't suck up snails and leaves.

Have you thought about leaving the pump where it is, but hiding or covering it?
Maybe a shrub or other plants to hide it from view.

I built a little wooden "house" out of scrap wood to protect and hide my aerator. Just don't make it restrictive as far as air flow. You don't want your pump to overheat.
Two walls of my wooden house are open at the top where they meet the overhanging roof and the roof just lifts off for access.

 

[j.w]

@randdusing
I'm so confused so I'm keeping my mouth shut

 

[randdusing]

Pumps are designed to push water, not pull it. So the longer you make your intake pipe, the worse the pump will perform. Externals perform best when the intake line is short.

Do you have any estimates on the general performance loss, 1%, 10%, 20%+?

Ok, re-reading your statement and then reading what @combatwombat stated, I think I understand now.
You want to move the external pump from ground level to a higher level, on top of the waterfall to better hide it.

I get it....sometimes it's hard to express exactly what we mean through our keyboards/keypads! It happens to all of us!

As @combatwombat has stated, keep the pipe run as short as possible.

And, as I stated, keep the intake off the bottom so it doesn't suck up snails and leaves.

Have you thought about leaving the pump where it is, but hiding or covering it?
Maybe a shrub or other plants to hide it from view.

I built a little wooden "house" out of scrap wood to protect and hide my aerator. Just don't make it restrictive as far as air flow. You don't want your pump to overheat.
Two walls of my wooden house are open at the top where they meet the overhanging roof and the roof just lifts off for access.

Yep, exactly! My pond lingo is not great.

I've attached a picture. The waterfall starts in the red area. If moving it closer to the waterfall isn't feasible, I'd like to at least clean up the plumbing and possibly move the pump along the blue lines to make it easier to conceal. The plumbing doesn't look great to my untrained eye, but I'm not sure if it can really be improved much.